One player want to take steps in order to remove Duke Hervis of Revel as ruler of Anglia. This being an herculean task, if not downright impossible, only encourages the player to try it. What hipotheticale steps would an ordinary kight take to go about doing this?

1. Get high enough in the rankings, such as the Round Table, and then accuse him before Arthur for killing women and children (Anglish ones, assuming he does so), being unworthy of his oath as a Round Table knight, and offer to duel him to prove your accusation.

2. Gather evidence that he is breaking the High King's laws and have enough high-ranking witnesses to this (Arthur himself would be the best one, of course). Then bring the accusation to the court. This assumes that Hervis is doing something that Arthur abhors. Kinda like the same that as above, although in the above, your own word as a RTK is enough of a proof.

If Hervis is not doing anything that Arthur objects to, for instance he is a rough and cruel ruler, but within the bounds of the law, then you really have your work cut out for yourself. You can't remove him legally, so time to do something else... Note, these are pretty dishonorable things to do.

3. Murder him. Ambush him while he is riding around his lands. Blame it on the Anglish rebels.

4. Raise an Anglish rebellion and kill him in his own castle or in the field. Obvious consequences are obvious.

5. Seduce his wife/daughter and dishonor his family. Provoke a challenge from him. Downside, you will have to be high enough that he would bother fighting you himself, rather than just send his champion to cut you down to size.

6. Make a deal with an Anglish witch to procure poison and poison him.

7. Make a deal with an Anglish resistance leader and betray the duke into her/his hands.

I would also want to know why he wants to remove Hervis. Has he read ahead to find out just how bad he is? Remember when he comes to power. There a plenty of those who feel that every Saxon should be punished for their deeds in years past, even if they were even born yet. Morien has laid the most obvious solutions to the problem. In #2, I would include other RTKs in the category of high ranking witnesses. Lancelot would be excellent. IN #6, it doesn't have to be an Anglish witch. There are still others who cling to the old ways. A Pict or Irish witch could also do this. I would add #8: Raise the locals/bordering areas into a resistance force. With a possible civil war brewing, Arthur would have to step in. Make sure that you have witnesses and be prepared for repercussions of daring to do this in Arthur's back yard.

Thanks, Morien, all good suggestion worth discussin with the player.


I would also want to know why he wants to remove Hervis. Has he read ahead to find out just how bad he is? Remember when he comes to power. There a plenty of those who feel that every Saxon should be punished for their deeds in years past, even if they were even born yet.

I'm in the habit of discussing with the players possible goals that they want to pursue and he just came up with that. I still haven't discussed with the player at length why he specifically feels this but it must have something to do with the fact that I portray Hervis as particularly cruel (Hate Saxons = 20). Even if the PKs don't agree with the saxon uprisings, at the very least they understand them.

This player enjoys court scenes and intrigue so I would focus on that and have him make appropriate rolls and gathering of evidence and scheming against Hervis. What would you suggest if, for instance, a reckless ordinary knight accused Duke Hervis of any wrongdoing? How would the other higher lords and Arthur react?

Note that Hervis is not even aware of the PK's existence, although I figure that will change quickly once the PK acts against him in any way, shape or form.

What would you suggest if, for instance, a reckless ordinary knight accused Duke Hervis of any wrongdoing? How would the other higher lords and Arthur react?

Speak with the knight his lord and ask him why he made this witless boy a knight. He still has a lot to learn, so keep him in check. And if the boy persists in his accusations, we may have some job for him to do (in the cold north, or somewhere far away from court).
It may also be that various loyal young knights of Hervis himself may challenge this knight for offending their lord.

See also Morien's comment. You need backing of one of the higher lords (or be one yourself) to have the claim be even considered true.

As for intrigue. A frontal assault is not the way to go. And do not go directly to the man you wish to oust. Begin with some of his underlings. These are easier bait and easier to remove. Also you do not need to accuse them of foul doing. Begin by opposing their ideas and plans.

For instance if a knight of Hervis does something (remotely) bad or cruel (like a raid) to a local village then step in and protect them from harm (be chivalrous in the extreme). But this can also be other ideas. Hervis and his men will have plans. One of the political schemes would probably involve marriage to some fine lady. Be the one to step in or have another do it (last one is better).

If the PK is not that honest, but tends to be deceitful, he can try to involve others in his schemes against the Duke.

Speak with the knight his lord and ask him why he made this witless boy a knight. He still has a lot to learn, so keep him in check. And if the boy persists in his accusations, we may have some job for him to do (in the cold north, or somewhere far away from court).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. The PK is already an ordinary knight.


It may also be that various loyal young knights of Hervis himself may challenge this knight for offending their lord.

That could be an unintended consequence of speaking ill of Hervis in court.



As for intrigue. A frontal assault is not the way to go.

As I said in my previous post, the player wants to focus in courtly intrigue so this is the way to go for him and not frontal assault.


One of the political schemes would probably involve marriage to some fine lady. Be the one to step in or have another do it (last one is better).

Again, I'm not sure what you mean here. The PK is already married although I could weave that into future events if his present wife dies. But why marrying a lady would have anything to do with Hervis?


If the PK is not that honest, but tends to be deceitful, he can try to involve others in his schemes against the Duke.

That almost goes hand in hand with courtly intrigue.

Nice ideas all around.

Being an ordinary knight is just that. you are still an ordinary run of the mill knight. When he becomes famous or even beyond that he may be seen as a knight who stands out. And even then a single extra ordinary knight is just that. You will need more that just glory to be able to accuse one of Arthur's own men to be considered. If he is a Round table knight or has the backing of a powerful lord (like Salisbury or Silchester) then yeah he may be heard.

What I meant to say was that marriage is one of the political schemes that will float around the court. This is what I mean:
One way to gain power and renown is through marriage. Especially heiresses are a wanted commodity. But marriage can also solidify the bond between allies.
And I would imagine that Hervis will use marriage to gain power and status as well, either by having his own vassals marry well or marry himself. Th PK could try to foil this plan. If he has enough renown of his own h emay try to gain the ladies (and her fathers or guardians) favor. But he could also back a rival of Hervis and through him foil the plans of Hervis.

Being an ordinary knight is just that. you are still an ordinary run of the mill knight. When he becomes famous or even beyond that he may be seen as a knight who stands out. And even then a single extra ordinary knight is just that. You will need more that just glory to be able to accuse one of Arthur's own men to be considered. If he is a Round table knight or has the backing of a powerful lord (like Salisbury or Silchester) then yeah he may be heard.

What I meant to say was that marriage is one of the political schemes that will float around the court. This is what I mean:
One way to gain power and renown is through marriage. Especially heiresses are a wanted commodity. But marriage can also solidify the bond between allies.
And I would imagine that Hervis will use marriage to gain power and status as well, either by having his own vassals marry well or marry himself. Th PK could try to foil this plan. If he has enough renown of his own h emay try to gain the ladies (and her fathers or guardians) favor. But he could also back a rival of Hervis and through him foil the plans of Hervis.

On the marriage bit, to further the conversation: marrying well was/is considered essential to both further the family glory and create profitable economic circumstances for the children. This means that glorious ladies are as in-demand as brides as beautiful ones or ones with large tracts of land; in KAP that ladies' glory score is directly added to the knight's (up to 1000 Glory), when they marry. The increased glory is then passed on to the children when they come of age, representing the accumulated glory of the line. Thus, late-game knights may not be at as much of a glory disadvantage as those who fought in early years, since they enjoy the benefits of their ancestry.

You would still want to ideally marry a beautiful, glorious heiress, meaning that in Hervis' case he'll be maneuvering for the favor of the guardians of a very limited pool of candidates, and the PK could--if clever of deceitful enough, work to poison that well. If a Duke cannot secure a good bride, eventually the gossip will, itself, take its toll and weaken his position. That's what I think the posters here are getting at.

But, long-term the PK needs to rise in prominence such that he'll be listened to if he intends to carve away the loyalty of Hervis' vassals, create fraction between him and the king, and so on. Aim to generate negative directed traits toward Hervis in others (suspicious, etc.), and reduce Loyalty(Hervis) or even Hervis' own Homage passion. These are mechanical ways to reflect the PK's slow success. Keep in mind that eventually Hervis will notice, unless his intrigue is lacking and the PK is very careful indeed!

--Khanwulf