I've put this here for want of anywhere better.

So, I'm doing some maps for use in my campaign - based on the colour Pendragon Player's Map - which some of you may also find useful. This links to my map gallery where, by clicking on each thumbnail, you can review each map in greater detail. Hovering your mouse over the detailed map will cause a pop up menu to appear from which you can select the original size, which is extremely large and virtually uncompressed. If you absolutely must have the highest quality (for example if you intend to print this to a plotter in full size) then please IM me and I can send you the uncompressed file. By warned though they are very large >10mb.

http://www.kap5.net/Other/Maps-Complete/11132069_miRPB#625498532_Bwr3H

Note: Greg has asked me to attach a copyright notice to these maps indicating that they are based on an original created by White Wolf, which I've now done.

Ultimately, I'd like to create all of scotland in the same style.. ah one day.

Damn... thats really nice. I'd like a really big one of these on my wall please.

SDLeary

Maybe something like this:

"(c) White Wolf Publishing, modified under 'fair-use' with no intent of profit."

I really like this and is also interested in getting the layered photoshop file if you put it up somewhere.

Thanks

Above link now links to the image gallery with the maps in original size. Updated to include Deira as Saxon in AD485.

Ooh. Very pretty, Sir.

D

With the big colour map, why is somerset the only area not shaded?

As it's independent. But you're right I should colour it yellow like the other non-logres kingdoms (Cornwall etc). The Isle of Wight is also not shaded. It's next on my list of "to dos" :D

I've updated the maps.

First, this is the link...

http://www.kap5.net/Other/Maps-Complete/11132069_miRPB#625498532_Bwr3H

The folder contains, from left to right;
1. The Players Pendragon Map.
2. The Map of Salisbury western half roughly A4 size.
3. The Map of Salisbury eastern half roughly A4 size.
4. The Map of Salisbury eastern half roughly A4 size, with Hampshire replacing Wessex as the county name (I was asked if I could do this ages ago and only now got round to doing it).
5. The Map of Salisbury FULL SIZE, high quality equal to roughly A2 in size.
6. The Map of Salisbury FULL SIZE, high quality equal to roughly A2 in size, with Hampshire replacing Wessex as the county name.
7. The Lands of Pendragon c.485 FULL SIZE. Now updated to include shaded regions for Somerset and Southports.

All of these maps can be downloaded in full. Simply hover your mouse over the main picture display on the right and select "Save Photo" from the slide in menu.

Thanks for posting these tremendous maps!

What software did you use to create your family trees?

fg,
Thijs

And how did you create those Estate maps? Google Earth? They are stunning?
Will you do this for all starting manors? This are the kind of handouts I want to give my starting players!

fg,
Thijs

I've reworked the Land and Manor Record Sheets for my campaign and of course they free to use for all KAP players. The file prints to A3 and when printed on both sides and folded creates a Manor wallet with all of the relevant data held on one sheet of paper. The following links to a jpeg image of one customised file (for use by one of my players), but I can provide a much higher quality .pdf to anyone that would like it with the name data blanked out.

side 1 - Outside http://www.kap5.net/Other/Rules/10348975_KZmRe#730924208_ih6hb-O-LB

side 2 - Inside http://www.kap5.net/Other/Rules/10348975_KZmRe#730924224_5SCwm-O-LB

I got a bit side tracked from finishing other maps :)




I cant find these anymore?
Can you put the pdf online? Or at least send to me?
Do you have pdf version of the skill-list and price-list as well?

fg,
Thijs

oh, I'm surprised you found them. :D

www.kap5.net (http://www.kap5.net) is my actual campaign website. But I do not have all of the aforementioned maps stored on there. Just the ones I want my players to see.

To answer your questions though, I use Photoshop to create the manor images. It's time consuming but relatively easy. I start with a shot of the real area taken from Google earth. I then cut generic forest and village areas from other Google Earth images and blend them in, also removing any obvious modern structures. I then resize roads etc and pass the result through several PS filters. Each one takes me about a day or so, so no I don't think I'll be doing it for every manor. Only new manors for my PCs.

I use a piece of software called Smartdraw to create the family trees. They could also be done in Photoshop but Smartdraw has a function which makes it less time consuming. I still pass them through Photoshop to add the more unusal text as Smartdraw does not support as many fonts.

All forms and handouts I create using InDesign.

I'll repost the manor folder shortly, later today.

thanks
Andy

oh, I'm surprised you found them. :D

www.kap5.net (http://www.kap5.net) is my actual campaign website. But I do not have all of the aforementioned maps stored on there. Just the ones I want my players to see.

To answer you questions though, I use Photoshop to create the manor images. It's time consuming but relatively easy. I start with a shot of the real area taken from Google earth. I then cut generic forest and village areas from other Google Earth images and blend them in, also removing any obvious modern structures. I then resize roads etc and pass the result through several PS filters. Each one takes me about a day or so, so no I don't think I'll be doing it for every manor. Only new manors for my PCs.

I use a piece of software called Smartdraw to create the family trees. They could also be done in Photoshop but Smartdraw has a function which makes it less time consuming. I still pass them through Photoshop to add the more unusal text though as Smartdraw does not support as many fonts.

All forms and handouts I create using InDesign.

I'll repost the manor folder shortly, later today.

thanks
Andy

I love those manor maps, too bad you dont do more manors, such a great piece of work would be perfectly sell-able..
The family histories were typed out (not auto-generated)?
Did notice that the family trees were bit small compared to default family numbers [see my comments on that in Rules Question section])..

Can I suggest to create handouts in pdf form as they are more easily portable/printable?
Love them all!

fg,
Thijs

Wow! Superb site. I love the paint effects on the photos of the manors and the people. I also really like your manor forms, an upgrade from my original design, to be sure. And holy cow! Thank you for the price lists, skills lists, etc. Have you sent them to Greg? They should totally be on the official site.

Now can you do a map of all the counties and duchies of Logres? ;D

D

I have finished - for now - the counties map. I say for now because this only shows the counties of Logres. I will work on other maps to include those of Cambria and Cumbria, as well as a duchies version.

http://www.kap5.net/Other/Maps-Complete/11132069_miRPB#625498532_Bwr3H

I'm not going to pretend this map is unfailingly accurate because it isn't. I used the counties map from the GPC p.31 as my source for the county lines, but this map does not match directly with the large colour player's map. For instance, many of the towns and cities are in slightly different positions. Thus I made the best guess possible, and always moved county lines to keep towns etc in the right county.

A few other points;
- I put in the county names of London and Windsor as these were not present before (I know they are part of the Duchy of Silchester but still).
- I have moved the county names to more centrally located positions where necessary.
- I have added Marlborough as it was not present before. Furthermore I have not used the spelling of Marlboro. Either someone was thinking of the cigarettes when they wrote it this way or I'm wrong, however Marlborough is the correct spelling in the UK.
- I have left the names of Essex and Anglia as is.

Any glaring problems please let me know and I will correct them.

thanks
Andy

Excellent work!

yes, very good....

If I can suggest you something : put the same color (or almost the same color) for counties that are in the same Duchy. Thus, you can "combine" the map of Duchy with Map of Conuty in just one map....
That's what I've done (on the paper) in a map for my player, and it is useful...

Great stuff. Looking forward to the complete map!

Andy - Thanks for all your work. Great job.

Chip

So after much delay, I have uploaded the Duchies map of Logres. Eventually I will have Counties & Duchies done for Cambria and Cumbria too. Eventually... :D

It can be viewed here;
http://www.kap5.net/Other/Maps-Complete/11132069_miRPB#780083812_sj2Ep-X3-LB

Pls note that all of these maps are for AD485-488 and mirror the date of my campaign, hence the reason Somerset is shown as independent.

Doon - Many thanks for your compliments.

Please feel free to make use of the reference sheets but PLEASE everyone be aware that these are NOT canon. I have made several, subtle adjustments to the skills and price lists to suit my own preference. Also, the manor upgrades sheet lists a number of additions of my own. Greg is aware of this. I have made canon versions available to him.

Beautiful map.

Gorgeous, as usual for Sir Pramalot the Artistic.

Wouldn't the "Game Play" section be a more fitting home for this thread?

In agreement with Sir Pramalot and Greg, I continued with his map and expanded upon Salisbury, more specifically all knightly (and banneret) manors in the Earldom of Salisbury.

You can find the results at:
http://gspendragon.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/book-of-maps/

fg,
Thijs

I applaud you, Sir J.M. I know how long this took to get right.

Wow. Big applause from me to. Great stuff.
Really nice.

Thats JM. I was starting to do something like this for my group, but you saved me a lot of work and did a better job of it than I would have been able to.

I just wish Greg wouldn't insist on putting in the "Falt" manor. I roll my eyes at that piece of punnery Mr. Stafford ::)

*giggles*

My players also rolled their eyes at Sir Pent, though still couldn't help distrusting him.

Edit: Oh yes, and there was also the infamous Baron Plaine. I have no shame.

I just wish Greg wouldn't insist on putting in the "Falt" manor. I roll my eyes at that piece of punnery Mr. Stafford ::)


Based on it's location, it looks like Falt Manor is about where Alberbury (Alwaresberie)l and Whaddon (Watedene) are. If you want I could edit JM's nice map and replace Falt with Alderbury or Whaddon.

Just don't complain when you players start saying "Whaaaddoon?"

Ah no. It's just a bit of comedy. I've had that chat with Dr J.M. and Greg insisted on it being there.

Ah no. It's just a bit of comedy. I've had that chat with Dr J.M. and Greg insisted on it being there.


The good ol' deFault clan.

Ah no. It's just a bit of comedy. I've had that chat with Dr J.M. and Greg insisted on it being there.


Oh, great, :)
Greg is calling me Thjis and everyone else Dr. JM, while I sign everything with Thijs...
(flashback to my youth of my holding presentations on summerschools explaining how I got stuck with such a confusing name)..
:)

PS: I must say I like the sound of Dr. JM :)

fg,
Thijs
aka
Thjis
aka
Dr. JM
aka
Dr. J.M. "Thijs" Krijger

Oops, noticed that the manor symbol at Clatford disappeared...

Latest version:
http://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/salisbury_manor_krijger1.jpg
http://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/salisbury_banneret_krijger3.jpg

PS: if enough people request I'll make a map with Falt replaced.. :)

fg,
Thijs

I would love that... What do most people think it should be called?

Love it. Love it. Love it. Well done, dude! Totally awesome job.

The only nit I could possible pick is that the player manors might want to be a bit brighter, tone-wise. At first I thought I was seeing things - reddish manor symbols alongside black manor symbols. Then I read the key and saw a slight color variation for player manors.

Wonderful, wonderful map.

D

Name wise I would just go with a geographically correct alternative. Its location indicates it to be Clarenden, as it sits just where the river Avon turns westward. Clarendon now occupies the area which is actually East Harnham. Of course, once you appease one nit pick, you may find the door open for a whole lot more :)

The colours actually look fine on my screen.

Those red colors went through several iterations before reaching their current not-too-obvious-yet-noticeable red tint.. :)

fg,
Thijs

I've been working on a table for allocating these manors to PCs (like the PC manor table in KAP).

It is an excellent map, BTW.

A few observations/questions:

1) Shrewton is a player manor in KAP5, but in black on the map.
2) There are two Allington's on the map. (one on the Avon river near Ambrosious Dike, and the second on the Borne river near Idmidston. Nothing wrong with that-just figured it was worth mentioning in case someone ends up with Allington. )
3) There are a total of 117 manors listed. (for those who are interested in the total).

I'm, probably going to add in 3 more manors somewhere just to make it easier to assign manors (six tables with 20 manors on each).


And the important question:

4) Would anyone else be interested in these tables? I'll PDF it and put a location grid key to make it easier to find a manor quickly.

4) Would anyone else be interested in these tables? I'll PDF it and put a location grid key to make it easier to find a manor quickly.



I would .

1) Shrewton is a player manor in KAP5, but in black on the map.

Oversight, will fix.



2) There are two Allington's on the map. (one on the Avon river near Ambrosious Dike, and the second on the Borne river near Idmidston. Nothing wrong with that-just figured it was worth mentioning in case someone ends up with Allington. )

Actually this is correct, there is an Allington on both locations.... (I just used Google Maps to get the names)
However to avoid confusion I'll change it to 'All Cannings' (which is also there, just on other side rive).



3) There are a total of 117 manors listed. (for those who are interested in the total).

:), ouch, that was a lot of work :)



I'm, probably going to add in 3 more manors somewhere just to make it easier to assign manors (six tables with 20 manors on each).


Warning, warning...
Monxton and Clatford are not Salisbury (but Levcomagus/Silchester), Grately is very contested (that's why set up border forest).
All the manors around Upavon are in 531 no longer part of salisbury! (apperently they were given as part dowry daughter Roderick to Earl Leicester).
Also I would not 'punish' a player for getting a manor north near Levcomagus (gained by Earl Roderick by his marriage).
[I would hand those manor to a powerfull banneret player knight and let them fortify like there is no tomorrow, but thats my game]

But more important: Not all these manors contain knights, many are desmaine manors for richer knights.
If you look at the banneret manor map:
http://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/salisbury_banneret_krijger3.jpg
then you see very few non-starting manors not owned by bannerets.
So if a player would start on one of those manors his liege would be a banneret and not the Earl directly.
Also (in my assumption) many of the manors around castles are desmaine with requirement to supply armed men (not knights) to castle garrison.

PS: Actually if you take look at banneret map, then all bannerets are mentioned in the NPC descriptions in 4th or 5th edition as rich heiresses with the correct number of manors (its my future plan to add this distinction, to make clear which manors are enoffed and which are desmaine).

So if you need more starting players manors, you can take black manors not part of a bannerecy, those are indeed single knight manors directly under the earl.

fg,
Thijs

4) Would anyone else be interested in these tables? I'll PDF it and put a location grid key to make it easier to find a manor quickly.



I would .


As you wish, my liege. :)

(Auhtor requests always have extra force behind them :D).

Oversight, will fix.

Don't feel bad. A couple of the PC manors switch between edtions. I only noticed this becuase I was using the KAP3 map of salisbury and one of the PCs rolled Shrewton in my KAP5 campaign.

It is a gorgeous map, and you saved at least one GM ( :)) a lot of time doing up something similar but inferior.




Actually this is correct, there is an Allington on both locations.... (I just used Google Maps to get the names)
However to avoid confusion I'll change it to 'All Cannings' (which is also there, just on other side rive).

Don't bother. I just mentioned it because I came across it while doing up the list. What I did what use Allington upon Avon, and Allington Upon Bourne to differentiate them. It works and gives a sort of medieveal/country flavor to it.



:), ouch, that was a lot of work :)

For you. I just had to follow the rivers. You went and named 90 something manors. I hope Greg appoints you Royal Cartographer.



Warning, warning...
Monxton and Clatford are not Salisbury (but Levcomagus/Silchester), Grately is very contested (that's why set up border forest).
All the manors around Upavon are in 531 no longer part of salisbury! (apperently they were given as part dowry daughter Roderick to Earl Leicester).
Also I would not 'punish' a player for getting a manor north near Levcomagus (gained by Earl Roderick by his marriage).
[I would hand those manor to a powerfull banneret player knight and let them fortify like there is no tomorrow, but thats my game]

Ah, I assumed they were part of Salisbury since they are listed as "Salisbury Manors" in they map legend.
Perhaps Levocomagus manors could be differentiated in some way. in a different color? I could do it (don't want to make you do more work).

What I'll do it put the "NorthEast" manors on thier own table so they won't come up after 531.



But more important: Not all these manors contain knights, many are desmaine manors for richer knights.

I know that, but I figure any one of them could be a PC knight's manor without drastic alterations.

What I am thinking of is using the chart for:

1) Assigning PC knights manors (giving me more that 20 possible starting manors)

2) Determining where new manors are that PCs acquire through marriage, where the heiress' manors are, random raids, sites for local tounaments, and so on. (I'm contemplating allowing PCs to use their bonus from Courtesy rolls while trying to find a wife to "bump" the location a little. Allowing them to try to get a manor closer to home or with a strategic location or resource, other than just going for more wealth).




If you look at the banneret manor map:

The map is interesting, but is it official? I'm kind of surprised that the banneretts were all lucky enough to get manors that are all close together like that. I sort of expected them to be more spread out throughout the country.

Also, thing tend to change during time. For example in KAP3 there was an heiress, Lady Jeanne of Broad Chalke, but in KAP5 Chalke is still available as a PC manor.

I don't mind trimming (or increasing, rounding out) the list to better reflect the situation/politics. I just want to make sure I got it right.

I debating on listing thing alphabetically or by region/section (NW, W, SW, S, SE, E, etc.)


Maybe I should put a blank space on the PDF so GMs can note which manors are already owned, by who, and who they are a vassal of? The we could just reroll when we need to?

I'm open to suggestions here. I'd rather do it in a way that will be useful to some than just do it in a way that won't.



http://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/salisbury_banneret_krijger3.jpg
then you see very few non-starting manors not owned by bannerets.
So if a player would start on one of those manors his liege would be a banneret and not the Earl directly.
Also (in my assumption) many of the manors around castles are desmaine with requirement to supply armed men (not knights) to castle garrison.

PS: Actually if you take look at banneret map, then all bannerets are mentioned in the NPC descriptions in 4th or 5th edition as rich heiresses with the correct number of manors (its my future plan to add this distinction, to make clear which manors are enoffed and which are desmaine).

So if you need more starting players manors, you can take black manors not part of a bannerecy, those are indeed single knight manors directly under the earl.

fg,
Thijs

Actually this is correct, there is an Allington on both locations.... (I just used Google Maps to get the names)
However to avoid confusion I'll change it to 'All Cannings' (which is also there, just on other side rive).

Don't bother. I just mentioned it because I came across it while doing up the list. What I did what use Allington upon Avon, and Allington Upon Bourne to differentiate them. It works and gives a sort of medieveal/country flavor to it.
[/quote]
That indeed sound nice, but then I should rename them as such on the map.



For you. I just had to follow the rivers. You went and named 90 something manors. I hope Greg appoints you Royal Cartographer.

Regretably I am still awaiting that appointment, however Greg said he liked it and that is already a reward in itself.



Ah, I assumed they were part of Salisbury since they are listed as "Salisbury Manors" in they map legend.
Perhaps Levocomagus manors could be differentiated in some way. in a different color? I could do it (don't want to make you do more work).

Yes, they should be differentiated, however if I added 3 non-salisbury manors, I should add 'all' non-salisbury manors.
Also how should I indicate the Upavon manors, since somewhere between 480 and 531 they change hands and become non-salisbury.
So I decided that 'Salisbury manor' meant, manors the Earl of Salisbury once has/had a claim too... and that those 3 manors are 'contested'.
[In my campaign my player drove through them and burned them to the ground]



What I am thinking of is using the chart for:

Good ideas.



If you look at the banneret manor map:

The map is interesting, but is it official? I'm kind of surprised that the banneretts were all lucky enough to get manors that are all close together like that. I sort of expected them to be more spread out throughout the country.
[/quote]
Map is as offical as that Greg saw it before publication and said it looked nice.... :)

I fully agree that they should be a bit more spread out, however here 'ease-of-use' won over reality...



Also, thing tend to change during time. For example in KAP3 there was an heiress, Lady Jeanne of Broad Chalke, but in KAP5 Chalke is still available as a PC manor.

Yep, that was difficult to incorporate, so Lady Jeanne got all those manors west of Chalke (Maybe Broad Chalke means everything between Broad and Chalke)



I debating on listing thing alphabetically or by region/section (NW, W, SW, S, SE, E, etc.)

I would do by region, since this solves the Upavon and NE region problem.



Maybe I should put a blank space on the PDF so GMs can note which manors are already owned, by who, and who they are a vassal of? The we could just reroll when we need to?

Brilliant idea!

fg,
Thijs

Update

-Added a handful of manors to round off the total to 120. That still leaves about 30 or so unamed/unplaced manors, but then some could be outside of Salisbury.

-Made up an ugly Lettered and Number gird and overlaid it on Dr. J.M.'s beautiful map. I was immedialy ashamed of doing that to such a gorgeous map. Lowered my Honor passion 1 point.

-Used ugly grid to give each manor position coordinates, such as Kimpton [Q-8], and Winterbourne Stoke* [K-9].

-Realized I fumbled my Honor roll when overlaying the Grid when I started giggling, considered Winterboune Stoke was a good place for a Kennel, and begain simging "Kimpton Races".

-Considering adding grid coordinates to other locations listed on the map (and in Salisbury chapter). [Sarum N-13], [Warminster C-9]

I think what I will do is make the table and put check boxes to note what manors have been assigned. Then do a record of all the manors with space to note who holds the manor, a shield symbol, a gift/grant check box, and who the owner is a vassal of. That should help each GM customize things to fit their own campaigns.

I might denote region by color, but the map grid coordinate help a lot in locating and organizing the manors. For instance the manors that go to Levcomagus are in the block Q-3 to U-5 (I swear, that helps with a grid)

I wish I knew more about the place, since it is now set up as a sort of gazetteer.

It is a gorgeous map, and you saved at least one GM ( :)) a lot of time doing up something similar but inferior.



If you look at the banneret manor map:

The map is interesting, but is it official?



I will clarify Thijs' answer a bit.
Official? No, this is not. It is, at this time, the most gorgeous and useful book.
However, I've been working on more details for the county, and have learned some ineresting new facts that I had planned to incorporate somewhere. During my process Thijs has contacted me and, rather than discouraging such gorgeous work, my policy is to let it happen. I considered asking Thijs to do my work but I've not got it together enough and think it'd not be the best application of time (for me) to either get all the data together now or to make everyone miss this great piece by the two mapmakers.
There's nothing wrong with this map for play.



I debating on listing thing alphabetically or by region/section (NW, W, SW, S, SE, E, etc.)


I think that's counter productive. What will be the center? Sarum Castle, perhaps. But it is artificial anyway, and so I'd just recommend using a corner as section A-1, etc.

I will clarify Thijs' answer a bit.
Official? No, this is not. It is, at this time, the most gorgeous and useful book.

Yes, it is gorgeous. I was planning on doing up something along the same lines as this, but it would not have look nearly as good. So for the most part I'll take Dr. J.M.'s maps and run with them. I've been running long enough to know just how rare it is to find something this good.

Since it is unoffcial but GS approved, I think I'll do up the list and let everyone else decide if/how they want to use it.






However, I've been working on more details for the county, and have learned some ineresting new facts that I had planned to incorporate somewhere. During my process Thijs has contacted me and, rather than discouraging such gorgeous work, my policy is to let it happen. I considered asking Thijs to do my work but I've not got it together enough and think it'd not be the best application of time (for me) to either get all the data together now or to make everyone miss this great piece by the two mapmakers.
There's nothing wrong with this map for play.

All that new info sounds interesting. I've discovered a couple of minor things, like a chalk mine near Dinton, and a manor house near Tisbury that is supposedly owned by the Gawaine family. More detail makes the place come alive. I think a "Book of Salisbury" with more info (and maybe some nice color maps) would be a great supplement.I wish it were feasible to do a series of books, one for each county, and then the same for Eire, Brittany, France, etc.

But then, I supposed you have to have a life, too. ;D





I think that's counter productive. What will be the center? Sarum Castle, perhaps. But it is artificial anyway, and so I'd just recommend using a corner as section A-1, etc.


Yea. That is how I did it.

I'm going to redo it because the color I picked wasn't a good choice, and I want to use a different scale for the grid (like 1 square per mile), and I want to see if I can add a couple of manors to round the number off to 120 without messing up the map.

So the plan:
1) Add manors
2) New grid
3) Fix the coordinates to match the new grid
4) Make nice PDF Table
5) make a "who owns this manor" sheet.

1) Add manors
2) New grid


Let me know which manors you would like to add, I can add them to the map..

And as grid, how about using a more historically correct grid.. just count the number of the manor along the river.. Dinton.. oh yes, that the 7th manors along the Bourne, counting from Sarum... :)

fg,
Thijs

1) Add manors
2) New grid


Let me know which manors you would like to add, I can add them to the map..

Thank you. I wanted to ask you to do this, but it felt like asking Michelangelo to paint a couple more angels onto the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. :-[

Here's the ones I added to get it up to 120 (I also dropped Monxton, Grately, and Clatford from the table). I added some approximate location guidelines. Don't worry about being exact, it's not like the Knights have access to Google Maps.


Chittern Anstey :on line with Boyton, above Knook, below Chittern, yet fork on river

Chervelle Parva:on line above Little Cherval, right below Chervall Magnam, where the river does that inverted U bend

Grimstead: a bit above Falt, below Pitton, right of Pitton, before Buckholt

Netheravon: below Haxton, left of Haton, probably on the curve on the Avon

Teffort:between Chickgove and Dinton, above right of Sutton







And as grid, how about using a more historically correct grid.. just count the number of the manor along the river.. Dinton.. oh yes, that the 7th manors along the Bourne, counting from Sarum... :)


fg,
Thijs
[/quote]
;D

I think I'll end up getting this map printed and laminated, and then print up little shield stickers/counter to put next to the manors. My players will get exicted when they get to place their arms on another manor.

Ok,
latest version, with all the requested updates/fixes
http://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/salisbury_manor_krijger.jpg
Let me know if the manors are where you wanted them, if not tell me where to shift...
If anyone else has any request/suggestions this is the time.. (the file is slowly becoming too big for my PC to handle..)

fg,
Thijs

Ok,
latest version, with all the requested updates/fixes
http://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/salisbury_manor_krijger.jpg
Let me know if the manors are where you wanted them, if not tell me where to shift...
If anyone else has any request/suggestions this is the time.. (the file is slowly becoming too big for my PC to handle..)

Thanks! ;D
Looks good to me. And very speedy work, too. ;D :)
I'm trying this with a 5 mile grid. At that scale the grid lines done overpower the map, but are still useful for locating manors on the map.

I got a PDF with the table of manors and Dr. JM's map, with a grid overlay.

I'm working on a 1-2 page master list of manors and holder as well as a 10 page "Manorial Register" that will list all the manors, thier holder, his coat of arms, liege lord, income, DV and glory.

Anyone know a good free host site that I can have host this stuff so others can download it?

Hmm, Atgxtg, not having seen your grid but why do it as an "overlay"? You can simply have a grid border and no actual lines on the map (or very soft ones).
If you used the right border you could even add flavor as well.

Download sites:

I find mediafire.com the best. Please, please avoid rapidshare.

Though if you have a windows live account, you could create a public shared file on your skydrive.

More then willing to put the files on my site :)
Also more then willing to put grid boxes along the side of my map if anyone can provide them :)

fg,
Thijs

Hmm, Atgxtg, not having seen your grid but why do it as an "overlay"? You can simply have a grid border and no actual lines on the map (or very soft ones).
If you used the right border you could even add flavor as well.


Orginally I did it to help make the sections stand out. However, I have been thinking that a semi-transparent overlay might work. Your idea of a "gidded border" sounds good, but I would need to find something sitable to base it on.

I'll do so surfing.

Edit: I found a couple of fonts that are borders. For some reason this Celtic border seemed familiar ( ;)). The idea would be to do the border, occasionally breaking the pattern to put in a letter or number for the grid. This is a rough image I used to test it, but how bad does it look?

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3628/bordertest.png



I could do it without letters and just make each block of the border be 1 "gird unit" (5 miles or 213 pixels) wide, but then it would be harder to use, as I expect there would be a lot of people looking at D-6 instead of F-4.

On the other hand the grid seems to be more useful for locating manors as hown below.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3875/gridtest.png

Well, I like the looks of the one with the border & letters/numbers. ;D It looks right, I'd add a bit of beige/whitespace between the border and the start of the map though the same as you have on the outside.
I would not use the one with the grid because it gives the wrong feel. But I'm a bit a-retentive about such stuff so don't use me as a guideline.

Depending on which software you use then if you really want grid lines then you can use "soft" ones instead of "hard" as you have in the pic above. You can do it through transparancy or aliasing.
Another would be to put in a checkered "tint" through color saturation of +-5%. But that is a bit complex.

Well, I like the looks of the one with the border & letters/numbers. ;D It looks right, I'd add a bit of beige/whitespace between the border and the start of the map though the same as you have on the outside.
I would not use the one with the grid because it gives the wrong feel. But I'm a bit a-retentive about such stuff so don't use me as a guideline.

I'll try the beige/whitespace, but I think what might be better is to just trim the beige beyond the border. One reason being that the original has jagged edges, that had to be trimmed straight for the border. But I can certain do up a test sample of both and see what they look like.




Depending on which software you use then if you really want grid lines then you can use "soft" ones instead of "hard" as you have in the pic above. You can do it through transparancy or aliasing.
Another would be to put in a checkered "tint" through color saturation of +-5%. But that is a bit complex.


I was thinking that people would want to print this. My idea was that the GM could pull out the table to find a random manor, and use the grid reference to located it on the small (letter sized) map.

Soft griding isn't an option for a printed PDF. I did soft grid it when working out what size to make the grid though. My idea was for the small map to be functional. If someone wants a better map they can use the original.

Still, if I can get away with it as a border, and it does the job without detracting from Dr. J.M. lovely map, so much the better. I feel like I'm taking a crayon to the Mona Lisa.

Well, I like the looks of the one with the border & letters/numbers. ;D It looks right, I'd add a bit of beige/whitespace between the border and the start of the map though the same as you have on the outside.
I would not use the one with the grid because it gives the wrong feel. But I'm a bit a-retentive about such stuff so don't use me as a guideline.

I'll try the beige/whitespace, but I think what might be better is to just trim the beige beyond the border. One reason being that the original has jagged edges, that had to be trimmed straight for the border. But I can certain do up a test sample of both and see what they look like.


Would it help if I provided a version without the original border?

fg,
Thijs

Would it help if I provided a version without the original border?
fg,
Thijs


A little, since I won't have to trimm it. It still mostly my mucking about with the border and seeing what looks good but can do the job.

Oh, and if you have any preferences or suggestions please chime in. I was just planning on slapping a quick grid over the map to get a reference for the manors and such. Then I was doing work on the table, a 3 page Manor sheet with all the manors, who owns them and such, and then a fancier manorial register that does the same as the sheet, but with space for the knight's coat of arms.

I wasn't expecting to do a lot of work with your map, since I think anything that I do it it is only going to detract from it. But I suppose that if I do a decent border and letter job it will detract the least.

Thanks for being so tolerant of my messing about with your art.