As I've been going over my Pendragon 5.2 edition I noticed something under Passions. In the section on character creation it mentions the five starting passions of Loyalty, Love, Hospitality, Honor, and Hate. This all makes perfect sense.

However, in the Book of Records: Knights, on the form fillable sheet, it lists the passions as Fealty, Homage, Love, Hospitality, Honor, and Hate. I am assuming, since the character sheet is slightly older, this pertains to a slightly differently description of passions?

I just want to make sure my assumption is right because I'd love to use these sheets for my group since it would make creation a little quicker/easier. I would just tell them fealty and homage were simplified into loyalty...is this correct?

Thank you kindly.

Actually, it is other way around. See Book of the Estate. Loyalty was split to Homage (your primary liege lord) and Fealty (everyone else, possibly even temporary loyalties like your employer if you are acting as a mercenary).

This fix was not made in 5.2 which was primarily just a graphics and layout update of 5.1. However, no harm done if you just stick to Loyalty.

The split of Loyalty into Homage and Fealty is a way to make it easier to track one's bonds and oaths. This leaves the Loyalty passion free to be those bonds of camaraderie and mutual support between friends and members of knightly orders.

Wait, so the current, post 5.1 preference is to have Homage(king), Fealty(lord) and Loyalty(comrades)? I thought Loyalty(lord) represented the direct feudal bond with Homage representing your link to the king and their respect (both ways). No?

--Khanwulf

No. Homage is your primary liege lord so for most default campaigns this would be Count Roderick. Homage Uther applies if you are the King's direct vassal.

Ok, thanks everyone. I am going to add a notation to my Book of Records, Book of Estate, and 5.2 edition. That way if I get a list of cross references I'll make it easier on myself. :)

Well I feel educated. Thanks!

So if you're a baron, with a grant from Roderick and Uther (let's say you killed Gorlois) and... say some land from Corneus for some reason. You owe Fealty(Roderick), Fealty(Corneus) and Homage(Uther)--and there is some selection of your liege lord, which in this case will almost certainly be Uther because he's the king and suffers no slight at all.

(It does make more sense for a clean implementation.)

--Khanwulf

Correct. Also, it is possible to be released from Homage so that you can swear that to another person, so in your example, the Knight of Roderick's who does deeds to win lands from King Uther, almost certainly has the shift from Homage (Roderick) to Fealty (Roderick) and Homage (Uther), since that is the way Uther wants it, and who will tell him no?

Correct. Also, it is possible to be released from Homage so that you can swear that to another person, so in your example, the Knight of Roderick's who does deeds to win lands from King Uther, almost certainly has the shift from Homage (Roderick) to Fealty (Roderick) and Homage (Uther), since that is the way Uther wants it, and who will tell him no?

Certainly no one will after Corneus submits and Gorlois is crushed! He just has a few boxes to check and then can call for a vote on High Kingship!

Pity St. Albans....

--Khanwulf

St. Albans is my favorite part of Uther's story. The one where the villain dies. I have great fun coming up with new ways for it to happen in my games. :)

So far my best work is having a bard lampoon him so that he dies of old age and due to the power Excalibur wields over those sworn to him all of those present are stricken as well.

St. Albans is my favorite part of Uther's story. The one where the villain dies. I have great fun coming up with new ways for it to happen in my games. :)

So far my best work is having a bard lampoon him so that he dies of old age and due to the power Excalibur wields over those sworn to him all of those present are stricken as well.

Uther is a predator, for sure, from our ... "enlightened" perspectives. For the time, he was a pretty good king from the perspective of just about everyone, who liked the riches of food and drink, and chasing skirts. This would not leave him regarded by the educated and nobility as the best of rulers, since those were known by their temperance and moderation (traditional Roman evaluation criteria), but he was effective in keeping the Saxons in line even if he had to work at it. (Unlike his brother Ambrosius, who actually lost more fights than he won.)

Interestingly, St. Albans' feast and the destruction of nobility is both an invention of Greg and a re-staging of the Treachery of the Long Knives a generation before. In the sources Uther died in London a few months after the Battle of St. Albans--probably from a wound--and was tended by Merlin. Note that the trial of the PKs and Merlin's outlawry are also adaptations of Greg, and in the sources Arthur was given away in a fostering process that was well-established and normal (we don't know what Ygraine thought of it, however).

I also like this period a great deal, and am looking forward to working through it, with several tweaks (shared despite the thread derail because ideas):
* Uther starts his pronounced slide with the whole Ygraine thing, and she herself enters the nunnery a year or two before St. Albans, as the King just won't keep himself under control.
* St. Albans is hell on the nobility, Roderick dies in battle, Uther is wounded but not critically; he enjoys himself too much at the feast but there is no poisoning.
* Uther, in his Pendragon pride, succumbs to his own lusts and degenerates further, holing up in London in both debauchery and the festering of his injury. During the winter, he dies. This may or may not be an assassination by any number of aggrieved parties--including the PKs or their relatives (one PK should be a quite pretty lady, with all that entails).
* The anarchy is, if anything, worse by the presence of the nobility, who have lacked a stable figure doing the past 5 years and were well on the way to scheming. The nobility kill each other in small battles as they take the opportunity to settle old scores, conquest, and press claims large and small. There's a great scramble early on in particular, to get ahead of what people expect will be a king "any day now". This peters out later, as the Saxons pick up the slack and become much more threatening.


--Khanwulf

St. Albans is my favorite part of Uther's story. The one where the villain dies. I have great fun coming up with new ways for it to happen in my games. :)

So far my best work is having a bard lampoon him so that he dies of old age and due to the power Excalibur wields over those sworn to him all of those present are stricken as well.


Hahahaha, I thought I was the only one doing and imagining that.