I just bought a few of the new books from Nocturnal Media. What a surprise ! I think changing english names to descriptive ones was one of the best idea given to this game in the last 20 years ! I'm French and have always felt inconfortable with Mallorian anglo-saxon names while arthurian Britain was Roman and Briton. So I drew maps, made list of places, looked for ancient equivalence or welsh translation... Until this ! It's not perfectly what I need, but makes my life a lot more easier. It gives IMHO a better mood to the game. Congratulation to the authors !

Then I'm sorry to inform you that they've said they won't be doing that anymore.

Here is the announcement about changing the names back to Historical:
http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2696-Name-Change-back-to-Historical

I admit I am one of those who likes going back to the historical names, since:
1) It makes searching for the places so much easier. I use a lot of Google Maps to whip up local maps and measure distances and travel times.
2) It actually grounds me more into the fact that this is our world, rather than some generic fantasy land: Kenilworth Castle conjures up the great siege of 1266, whereas "Red Tower" gives me nothing. It could be in Forgotten Realms for all I care. It helps that I like medieval history a lot, of course.
3) It makes using the vast majority of the books that have come before much easier, including all the regional books such as the Savage Mountains and the adventure books. Even GPC (apart from some county and city names).

There are other reasons, but those three come to mind straight away.

That's a pity. At least books and lists give me enough information to avoid saxon names.


KAP, even if fantasy, is still stongly set up in a 5-6th centuries setting which is about Britons and invaders, particularly if you start GPC before Badon Hill. Older KAP editions were based on later and higher fantasy arthurian myth where names were less problematic. But if you play Saxon invasions, you can't use modern England names as is.

Alas, I admit French don't know much about British history or geography, and for us Kenilworth could be in Forgotten Realms, it doesn't ring a thing.

That's a pity. At least books and lists give me enough information to avoid saxon names.


The irony, to me, is that Oxford is discarded as a 'Saxon name', but Oxenford is 100% OK. And of course we still have Salisbury and Silchester.



KAP, even if fantasy, is still stongly set up in a 5-6th centuries setting which is about Britons and invaders, particularly if you start GPC before Badon Hill. Older KAP editions were based on later and higher fantasy arthurian myth where names were less problematic. But if you play Saxon invasions, you can't use modern England names as is.


Why not? Uther's Logres is very much based on Norman England, when you look at the society in BotW, not 5th century Sub-Roman patchwork of petty kingdoms. Malory is throwing contemporary English placenames left and right, rather than using Latin names. It is just when he goes to detail the knights' adventures in some remote place that he turns into more descriptive names, and this way he doesn't have to pin the place down explicitly on the map. (And I would very much be fine with using things like Dolorous Castle [Real-Place] in adventures, when the place is introduced.)

Why is it better to use Oxenford than Oxford? Why is Buckingham so much worse than Stag's Meadow? Or Ringshall vs. Stone Circle. I know which ones of those trip from the tongue more poetically.

Now I could understand some of the argument if everything had been converted to Latin and/or Welsh, but since it is modern English rather than Old English, I don't see a problem. English is already doing work as in-game Welsh, so why not?

(Granted, the use of (Norman-)French personal names annoy(ed) me a lot, since they clash so much with the otherwise Celtic or Latin personal names in use.)




Alas, I admit French don't know much about British history or geography, and for us Kenilworth could be in Forgotten Realms, it doesn't ring a thing.

I assume that you are also relatively new to the game, so you have not had time to pick up the real placenames from the previous editions? Also, Google Map. So much easier to throw "from Buckingham to Ringshall" on Google map and check the walking distance, than having to crossreference "Stag's Meadow" and "Stone Circle" from the index.

I understand reasons of coherence with older KAP manuals and arthurian corpus such as Malory, or even medieval french authors who use english name of places, like Salisbury, Gloucester and others.

I think my sensibility is simply about this foreign language in this context. As I play in French, I would never use those new descriptive names without a translation (french, latin, welsh or breton if I may). English, old or modern is Saxon language, and it bothers me to use Oxford or Oxenford at the same rate. I prefer Rydychan, which is the exact same meaning in Welsh, and for this one, is KAP canon. But why is there also Oxford on the map ? Why put Salisbury and Sarum in the same text ? That needs choices and clarification and I decided to evacuate every english name (until maybe it's conquered by bloody invaders !).

(Nothing rings more english than a name like Buckingham ! And for me it evoques George Villiers, or maybe Queen's palace in London. By Jove I would never use it in Vth century Britannia !)


I played two long campaigns in the last 15 years (and the second advances very quick !), and had to do a lot of preparation work as a GM, but it's worth it. I rarely seen a game that hooked so much players to their characters. What is important is their stories as courteous knights and lovers over decades, rather than names on the map. But still !

I think my sensibility is simply about this foreign language in this context. As I play in French, I would never use those new descriptive names without a translation (french, latin, welsh or breton if I may). English, old or modern is Saxon language, and it bothers me to use Oxford or Oxenford at the same rate.

OK, now THAT I can understand. :)

It wasn't an issue for us, even when we were playing in Finnish. In fact, we got a kick out of it when during a tour to Salisbury Cathedral, I managed to snap a photo of a roadsign to Grately, which was one of the PK homes in our campaign. :) I like being reminded that we are in Britain, in the real world, even though it is a fantastical depiction of it and that real history will reassert itself soon enough. But I can understand that is not for everyone.

OK, now THAT I can understand. :)

It wasn't an issue for us, even when we were playing in Finnish. In fact, we got a kick out of it when during a tour to Salisbury Cathedral, I managed to snap a photo of a roadsign to Grately, which was one of the PK homes in our campaign. :) I like being reminded that we are in Britain, in the real world, even though it is a fantastical depiction of it and that real history will reassert itself soon enough. But I can understand that is not for everyone.

Now THAT is a pic I would love to see - as one of my own players holds Grately - and he would LOVE it.

Now THAT is a pic I would love to see - as one of my own players holds Grately - and he would LOVE it.

It was just a quick photo from the window of a moving tour bus, nothing artistic. This was back in 2005, so I can try to find it in the archive hard drive. As it happens, in 2016 we were driving across France and went through a town named Avallon. Cue frantic scrambling for the camera. :P

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.1794092,-1.6091636,3a,16y,215.39h,87.17t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1s4cgR8JPM5cNjAHoRiLiilA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i38

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.1794092,-1.6091636,3a,16y,215.39h,87.17t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1s4cgR8JPM5cNjAHoRiLiilA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i38

Thanks. That wasn't the roadsign I took a picture on, but I do love the 'Please drive carefully'. :)

Thanks. That wasn't the roadsign I took a picture on, but I do love the 'Please drive carefully'. :)

You get that on most small villages, because the speed limit on the country lanes is 60 mph (about 95 kph), then you come through a village that is a few hundred yards long, where it will drop to 30 mph, until you are out the other side and back up to 60 mph.

I LOVE IT - and so will my player!