If a household knight gets married, does the PK have to provide for her upkeep, or does the Liege Lord do so (since he approved it)?

During the Christmas feat, one of my newly knighted PK's drew the "An Ideal Wife" card and wound up with the heiress of another household knight, with a modest dowry (£4). Since the PK didn't want to insult his liege ord, or lose a point of Loyalty (lord) he's now married.

Interestingly enough, the same PK also drew the "Generous Knight" card, so he will be living well during the current year.

But what about next year?

I'd say the usual case of a married HK would be having him married to one of the Liege's wife's ladies-in-waiting, so their upkeep is already included in the Lord's expenses. It would be rare, I think, for a Lord to grant his knight permission to marry without having any visible means of support for the wife-to-be (which he generally won't, as a Bachelor Knight). A particularly generous Lord might actually engage a woman who the Knight wishes to marry as one of the Ladies in Waiting if she weren't already and there were a need. Might get them some 'conspicuous consumption' Glory if she's 'extra'.

In your specific case, it might depend on where the new bride came from: since she was the widow of a HK, bearing in mind the above, I'd say she's probably one of the ladies-in-waiting, and covered by the Lord's household costs already, and he's probably the one stumping up the dowry, especially if he's the one requiring the Knight become a husband.

Actually a daughter, not a widow. The PK was kinda stuck in a bind. He had just been knighted and didn't want to offend his liege. And then he rolled the daughter of a household knight, dowry £4 off of the random marriage table for a Household knight from the Book of the Entourage.

I was thinking that the two "random" events are probably related. That is the knight who offered to foot the bill for the PK was probably aware of the marriage. I also rolled up the wife per the Book of the Entourage, and she was at max age (21) too. So I suspect that her father was a well liked knight of the Earl, who died recently in the raids they have been suffering, and that the Earl wanted to make sure his friend's daughter was looked after and didn't become an old maid. The knight who offered to maitnain the PK was probably another freind of the deceased knight, who got landed and wanted to do what he could to help his friend's family.

So I guess the Liege will foot the bill for the PK's wife under the circumstances. At least until/if the PK gets landed. I think that's appropriate. It's just the whole course of events surprised me. I didn't expect the PKs to get married quite so soon.

All that sounds logical, right?

[snip]

All that sounds logical, right?

Eminently. And nicely tangled up for future ravelling... :)

Actually, you make a point I hadn't thought of: if the Lord is responsible for keeping the wife, who's paying for all the squalling brats that will inevitably arise from having a knight cadre married to your wife's ladies-in-waiting...? Is this a reason Lords enfeoff their HKs? To get the kids out from underfoot, and because losing a manor will actually save them money ;)

LOL! Partly. Itrwill probably save them some peace of mind too. ;)

Now the event came up from a random card, but obviously a liege lord doesn't marry a household knight off for nothing. Especially when he literally just knighted the man earlier in the same day. So I have to try and figure out what the Earl is up to. Looking at the PK, his "unusual" skills (i.e stuff besides Sword, Horse, Lance) are Orate and Intrigue. So I think the PK is being groomed for some sort of diplomatic position. The PKs did get favorably noticed by the Archbishop of London last year.

I liked the idea of the Count looking after his trusted household knight's daughter. However, I do admit that it still leads to a question of why the PK? Question: Is the PK the heir of a vassal knight or just a nobody household knight? Could of course be the same reason as for the girl, the Count looking after the son of a favored retainer.

Like womble said, some ladies-in-waiting (including married ones at £2 upkeep) are included to the higher ranks of the nobility Court budget. See BotW for more. But as a more general answer, it depends. If the Liege is ordering the knight to marry, then yes, the Liege would be responsible. If the Liege is allowing the knight to marry on the knight's own request, then it would be the knight's own problem to support his family out of his own pocket. Let's hope that he gets loot. Of course, in both cases the Liege can make space in his Court for the lady in question, if he so chooses, and hence it is a bit more cost-neutral for him. Also, oftentimes the household knights would be given widows of vassal knights to marry, so she would come with her own support (Widow's portion).

What used to happen in our campaigns, while not that historical, was that the PKs' household knights, especially in outlier possessions, became de facto vassal knights, granted the right to marry, and the wives would then become the stewards of the manor. Given that many of those household knights were family, it is no wonder that the PKs wanted to encourage for those family branches to continue growing.

I liked the idea of the Count looking after his trusted household knight's daughter. However, I do admit that it still leads to a question of why the PK? Question: Is the PK the heir of a vassal knight or just a nobody household knight?

The PK is a Nobody household knight who was literally just knighted the household knights, much like KAP1. The feat was at Chirstmas after the first year, so the PK literlay got married art the start of the campaign.. This was partially due to the early start (to give the players a chance to earn their manor), partially to simplify the bookkeeping and winter phase for the new player, but mostly to get the PKs to appreciate just how good vassal knights have it compared to the rank and file. In my last couple of games the PKs lost track of that. Oh, and there is also a possibility that the knight might end up in exile in Armorica and don't get land until they return with Aurelius and Uther.



Could of course be the same reason as for the girl, the Count looking after the son of a favored retainer.
I didn't even think of that! Come to think of it, when we did his family history his father died within a few years of being knighted. Maybe the Earl was fond of the PKs father, and is looking after the family line.




Like womble said, some ladies-in-waiting (including married ones at £2 upkeep) are included to the higher ranks of the nobility Court budget. See BotW for more.

Okay, so he has a wife and the Earl is paying for her upkeep. He did alright at the feast. He got a wife, gets to live like a rich knight for a year, and will probably spend some of his treasure (luck table) to upgrade his outfit (it's rough times and all the PKs rolled bad and ended up as Poor Knights).