Two issues have come up related to character generation in my campaign.

First, when generating a character and giving him previous experience I know you cannot add +1 twice to a single attribute (ie no adding +2 to Str). However, can you add +1 to two different attributes (ie Str +1 AND Dex +1)?

Second, if a characters son is past 21 but his father is still healthy and off adventuring, what becomes of him in the meantime? Are those years treated as ''normal'' additional years (ie +1 to an attribute, +1D6 to skills etc)? What if he is still not the players PC when is past the 5 years of additional development? Are
these years treated as per the usual tables for when players miss a campaign year? Should we treat all years as missed campaign years? Does the father have to provide the 2 libra for his upkeep? Do the peasants provide this as a ''normal'' expense? Wht if the father cannot provide afford the extra 2 libra? Is the son expected to maintain a squire?

Sorry for the barrage of questions.

I will request that others quote the rules. :)



if a characters son is past 21 but his father is still healthy and off adventuring, what becomes of him in the meantime?

The key to the answer is: who will pay to maintain him. Who will pay the £4 to keep him alive and up to station?


Are those years treated as ''normal'' additional years (ie +1 to an attribute, +1D6 to skills etc)?

I would. In fact, I'd have my players use this:
http://gspendragon.com/catchup.html


What if he is still not the players PC when is past the 5 years of additional development? Are
these years treated as per the usual tables for when players miss a campaign year? Should we treat all years as missed campaign years?
I would.
There is no point in punishing him.


Does the father have to provide the 2 libra for his upkeep?

No.


Do the peasants provide this as a ''normal'' expense?

No.

What if the father cannot provide afford the extra 2 libra? Is the son expected to maintain a squire?

Knights always have squires, if they can. If not, they are poor. Poor knights are in danger of losing theinoble status simply because they are poor.

If he is the #1 son and waiting for his inheritance, the expense of him being knighted would be borne by the peasants, as that is one of the required aides.
Since the manor will some day be his, it is sensible that he hangs around it, to help etc.
If he can be fed.
If not, he could be employed elsewhere: he household of his liege lord is a good possibility.
if he needs one.
If not, then this hapless son would probably join some mercenary band.

A realistic alternative, though, would that he is not even knighted until he has a source of decent income. Thus the heir may remain an esquire for the whole time his father lives.

--Greg

If the manor doesn't make enough money to support two knights,

Very good question. Point 2 is something that I've been puzzled about, but having only just started the GPC, it's not something that I have to deal with yet.

If you have an heir of playable age do you have to wait until the father dies before he really gets to do anything? Can the father abdicate as it were so that the heir gets the lands etc? I can imagine my players praying that 60 year old Sir Long in the Tooth dies so that their younger PCs finally get to run the show.

Very good question. Point 2 is something that I've been puzzled about, but having only just started the GPC, it's not something that I have to deal with yet.

If you have an heir of playable age do you have to wait until the father dies before he really gets to do anything? Can the father abdicate as it were so that the heir gets the lands etc? I can imagine my players praying that 60 year old Sir Long in the Tooth dies so that their younger PCs finally get to run the show.


Retire the old guy. Maybe he steps down from active service and is the steward, even. Keep those ageing rolls--only 80 more years until Camlann!!

Alternately: he is victim in some scenario;
he is an officer at court, an insider npc
he mysteriously disappeared
he can afford it

or play the old guy!
There is not much funnier than a PC with Sword 24 and 3d6 damage.

In the Anarchy stage it's hardly important about what is formal, since knights are just milites anyway, another kind of soldier. Get a horse and armor, you are one too! :D

--Greg

Thanks for the thorough answer.

It did occur to me to wonder; does any young lady of decent standing marry a knight before he inherits? Does he have to marry beneath his station or can he not marry at all until he inherits?

Does he gain full use of the manor's enhancements (if he is at the manor at all)? Is this on a case by case basis (ie he can use the jousting list to improve his lance ability, but he can't use his father's gazebo for flirting)?

On a completely unrelated note, do nobles fish? My initial reaction was to say 'no, of course not,' but one of my (more rurally inclined) players pointed out that hunting and fishing do seem to go hand in hand.

Thanks for the thorough answer.

It did occur to me to wonder; does any young lady of decent standing marry a knight before he inherits?


In history, no. Well, see below too.
In Pendragon, sure.
Whenever the GM says so.



Does he have to marry beneath his station


Historically, marriages are for property and connections.
Marrying beneath one's station is...
...frowned upon, let us say. "Forbidden" is so harsh after all.
But who would, really, squander their one likely chance to advance?



or can he not marry at all until he inherits?



Since everyone knows this guys will inherit eventually, they can be wed early.
Sometimes as early as six years old!
Betrothal, anyway...




Does he gain full use of the manor's enhancements (if he is at the manor at all)? Is this on a case by case basis (ie he can use the jousting list to improve his lance ability, but he can't use his father's gazebo for flirting)?



I'd go to the GM for this.



On a completely unrelated note, do nobles fish? My initial reaction was to say 'no, of course not,' but one of my (more rurally inclined) players pointed out that hunting and fishing do seem to go hand in hand.


Interesting question. You should always start a new thread with a new question. Especially an intersting one. :) Thank you.

--Greg

On a completely unrelated note, do nobles fish? My initial reaction was to say 'no, of course not,' but one of my (more rurally inclined) players pointed out that hunting and fishing do seem to go hand in hand.


Interesting question. You should always start a new thread with a new question. Especially an intersting one. :) Thank you.

--Greg



Done.

Thanks for the help.

Greg,

I realized just now you never answered the first question "When generating a character and giving a knight previous experience I know you cannot add +1 twice to a single attribute (ie no adding +2 to Str). However, can you add +1 to two different attributes (ie Str +1 AND Dex +1)"

Just a short reply...

Quote from Rob :
"On a completely unrelated note, do nobles fish? My initial reaction was to say 'no, of course not,' but one of my (more rurally inclined) players pointed out that hunting and fishing do seem to go hand in hand."

Traditionnaly nobles don't fish ! Never in arthurian legend; Hunting is for knights and fishing for monks ! The exception is the Fisher King but he's "méhaignié" and lose his virility and sexuality with "dolorous strike"... He can't hunting, only fishing is possible... For symbol, fishing is "contemplative" view and hunting is "active" view... and Jesus is egaly a fisher not a hunter.

Sorry I don't see the other topic...

Well here of course:

http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=354.0

Ah, let us look again.
Always useful to me to have one question per thread, so it does not get lost.




First, when generating a character and giving him previous experience I know you cannot add +1 twice to a single attribute (ie no adding +2 to Str). However, can you add +1 to two different attributes (ie Str +1 AND Dex +1)?



I do not see where it says you cannot add 1 twice to the same attribute.
I would allow it.

--Greg

Ah, let us look again.
Always useful to me to have one question per thread, so it does not get lost.




First, when generating a character and giving him previous experience I know you cannot add +1 twice to a single attribute (ie no adding +2 to Str). However, can you add +1 to two different attributes (ie Str +1 AND Dex +1)?


I do not see where it says you cannot add 1 twice to the same attribute.
I would allow it.
--Greg


err... Page 30 of Pendragon under previous experience the second full paragraph says "you may not choose the same benefit for the same year." I always took that to mean you cannot add +2 to any one attribute.

I feel such shame, I just quoted the rules to rule giver.... I think I fear induction in the rule-lawyer hall of fame now....

I do not see where it says you cannot add 1 twice to the same attribute.

err... Page 30 of Pendragon under previous experience the second full paragraph says "you may not choose the same benefit twice for the same year." I always took that to mean you cannot add +2 to any one attribute.


Ah excellent. Thank you.
Citing a source like that is always helpful. Always welcome.
The red is a slight correction to your quote, to clarify it for certain.
As I've said, I don't always play the same way that the rules state. It's always good to show me. :)

I'd strictly interpret the rules to say you can not add to two attributes a year, as adding to (one of) them is one of the three benefits from which you choose.

In truth, in my game, I'd almost certainly allow it.
It's tough enough to survive without the GM being stingy.



I feel such shame, I just quoted the rules to rule giver....


Oh, please feel positively good about it. Everyone should emulate it and everyone should include a page reference when it is available.



I think I fear induction in the rule-lawyer hall of fame now....


Well, it was a bit clerky, but not necessarily unknightly. :D

--Greg





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