Hi all,
Just some questions after our very first game session (playing through the introductory scenario):

The bear fight. One player engaged the bear first, before the other two players could reach the battle. This unfortunate player was knocked off his horse by the bear.
The following round, everyone was engaged in the battle.

The knocked-down player wanted to stand up, but he also wanted to defend himself against further attacks. We had to use the optional combined action rule to do both of these (a -5/+5). He took the Defence action (+10 but cannot do damage). His spear skill is 10. Modified (-5 combined action, +10 defence, -5 knocked down) it remains at 10.

Question #1) We weren’t sure if he suffers the -5 knock down penalty during the round that he stands up (assuming movement is after melee, we added the penalty in).

The other two players wanted to attack the bear (spears from horseback). Both are charging, so they use their Lance skills (10 and 15 respectively). They both get +5 for charging and +5 from horseback vs. the creature on the ground. Thus skills will be modified to 20 and 25 respectively.

Question #2) Both players had spears, but were charging and using them like lances. Do they have to use the rules for ‘lance breaks’ (pg 122) even thou they are really using spears?

The bear could only attack one target/round (its Maul ability, pg 183). I randomly determined it would be the poor player on the ground. Against that player, the bear gets a +5 vs. a downed target and +5 vs. a target doing a combined action. Its claws have an attack value of 15, so after modifiers they would be 25.

Question #3) Due to its maul ability, it sounds like this bear cannot divide his attacks against his multiple opponents. Thus the two charging knights are unopposed?

The player on the ground rolled a partial success vs. the bear’s success. Thus we ruled that he could get his shield into play against the attack. Both charging players were successful and killed the bear.

Question #4) I’ve read elsewhere about the weapon and armour restrictions on a hunt. But are shields restricted on a hunt as well?

After the bear fight, during the winter phase, a newly knighted character decided to marry within his class. The resulting dowry was a manor and some libra.

Question #4) How does this new manor work? Assuming it’s like the player’s starting manor, it would generate 6 libra, correct? Does the player get an extra 6 libra profit at the end of the year, or does this money go to pay that manor’s expenses, just like the player’s original manor does?

Thanks for all the help.

Hi all,
Just some questions after our very first game session (playing through the introductory scenario):

The bear fight. One player engaged the bear first, before the other two players could reach the battle. This unfortunate player was knocked off his horse by the bear.
The following round, everyone was engaged in the battle.

The knocked-down player wanted to stand up, but he also wanted to defend himself against further attacks. We had to use the optional combined action rule to do both of these (a -5/+5). He took the Defence action (+10 but cannot do damage). His spear skill is 10. Modified (-5 combined action, +10 defence, -5 knocked down) it remains at 10.

Question #1) We weren’t sure if he suffers the -5 knock down penalty during the round that he stands up (assuming movement is after melee, we added the penalty in).

I believe the rules say that PK are only have one action per round so I would say Yes.

The other two players wanted to attack the bear (spears from horseback). Both are charging, so they use their Lance skills (10 and 15 respectively). They both get +5 for charging and +5 from horseback vs. the creature on the ground. Thus skills will be modified to 20 and 25 respectively.

Yes and dont forget the -5 to the creature on the ground too.

Question #2) Both players had spears, but were charging and using them like lances. Do they have to use the rules for ‘lance breaks’ (pg 122) even thou they are really using spears?

Yes, it the impact of the spear/lance hitting the target that causes it to break

The bear could only attack one target/round (its Maul ability, pg 183). I randomly determined it would be the poor player on the ground. Against that player, the bear gets a +5 vs. a downed target and +5 vs. a target doing a combined action. Its claws have an attack value of 15, so after modifiers they would be 25.

dont forget the -5 if the PK as not stood up.

Question #3) Due to its maul ability, it sounds like this bear cannot divide his attacks against his multiple opponents. Thus the two charging knights are unopposed?

The player on the ground rolled a partial success vs. the bear’s success. Thus we ruled that he could get his shield into play against the attack. Both charging players were successful and killed the bear.

I think this is correct

Question #4) I’ve read elsewhere about the weapon and armour restrictions on a hunt. But are shields restricted on a hunt as well?

A hunting spear is a 2handed weapon, so no shield until it is drop.

After the bear fight, during the winter phase, a newly knighted character decided to marry within his class. The resulting dowry was a manor and some libra.

Question #4) How does this new manor work? Assuming it’s like the player’s starting manor, it would generate 6 libra, correct? Does the player get an extra 6 libra profit at the end of the year, or does this money go to pay that manor’s expenses, just like the player’s original manor does?

A manor generators £6 a year it managed. If the PK can be at the Manor for about 9 months then yes. If he cant the a Steward would have to be employed and this costs at least £1 a year. The wife can act as stward for the home manor.

Thanks for all the help.

The knocked-down player wanted to stand up, but he also wanted to defend himself against further attacks. We had to use the optional combined action rule to do both of these (a -5/+5). He took the Defence action (+10 but cannot do damage). His spear skill is 10. Modified (-5 combined action, +10 defence, -5 knocked down) it remains at 10.

Question #1) We weren’t sure if he suffers the -5 knock down penalty during the round that he stands up (assuming movement is after melee, we added the penalty in).

I tend to rules it’s -5/+5 if he is fighting as he is getting up, but if he takes the defensive action (+10) it goes to +5/+5. I don’t feel the need for the extra combined action -5 as in effect you are just deciding does he go on the offence or defence as he gets up, not a whole new action.

The other two players wanted to attack the bear (spears from horseback). Both are charging, so they use their Lance skills (10 and 15 respectively). They both get +5 for charging and +5 from horseback vs. the creature on the ground. Thus skills will be modified to 20 and 25 respectively.

That’s correct, but on a personal note don’t forget to take into account the size of the foe. When I ran it I ruled they didn’t get the +5 horseback.

Question #2) Both players had spears, but were charging and using them like lances. Do they have to use the rules for ‘lance breaks’ (pg 122) even thou they are really using spears?

Yes once you use a spear in a charge it becomes classed as a lance. Lances don’t really exist yet; they get invented later in the game.

The bear could only attack one target/round (its Maul ability, pg 183). I randomly determined it would be the poor player on the ground. Against that player, the bear gets a +5 vs. a downed target and +5 vs. a target doing a combined action. Its claws have an attack value of 15, so after modifiers they would be 25.

Using your bonus yes, using mine if would be plus +5.

Question #3) Due to its maul ability, it sounds like this bear cannot divide his attacks against his multiple opponents. Thus the two charging knights are unopposed?

Correct it’s a special ability v a single foe.

There are combat new rules one of which involves multiple opponents,
http://www.gspendragon.com/maneuvers.html

The player on the ground rolled a partial success vs. the bear’s success. Thus we ruled that he could get his shield into play against the attack. Both charging players were successful and killed the bear.

Question #4) I’ve read elsewhere about the weapon and armour restrictions on a hunt. But are shields restricted on a hunt as well?


I tend to say they hunt on rouncy’s, wear leather and shields are optional.

The spear mentioned above is a Boar spear, which is used 2-handed and couldn’t be used from horseback. Unless players say otherwise I tend to say they use normal spears. If they are using boar-spears they are more likely to be hunting on foot.

After the bear fight, during the winter phase, a newly knighted character decided to marry within his class. The resulting dowry was a manor and some libra.

Question #4) How does this new manor work? Assuming it’s like the player’s starting manor, it would generate 6 libra, correct? Does the player get an extra 6 libra profit at the end of the year, or does this money go to pay that manor’s expenses, just like the player’s original manor does?

Firstly decide if it's Demesne or enfoeffed.

To quote Greg
A demesne manor belongs to the landholder, and he does not have to supply a knight for it. Such a special honour gives income without responsibility, and is a relatively rare occurrence.
An enfoeffed manor is one that has a knight that hold it already, and will always have said responsibility.

So if it’s demesne he will gain 6l or if it’s enfoeffed he will gain a vassal knight.

If it’s demesne and the manors are reasonably close buy it will just need the single wife/steward else he will need to employ one and lose 1libra a year.

If it’s enfoeffed all the money is tied up, though again is it's close buy you could maybe get a libra for saving on the steward.

A demesne manor belongs to the landholder, and he does not have to supply a knight for it. Such a special honour gives income without responsibility, and is a relatively rare occurrence.
An enfoeffed manor is one that has a knight that hold it already, and will always have said responsibility.

So if it’s demesne he will gain 6l or if it’s enfoeffed he will gain a vassal knight.

If it’s demesne and the manors are reasonably close buy it will just need the single wife/steward else he will need to employ one and lose 1libra a year.

If it’s enfoeffed all the money is tied up, though again is it's close buy you could maybe get a libra for saving on the steward.

So when you marry, are the manors (Table 5-4: Random Marrage, pg 109) enfoeffed or demesne?

A demesne manor belongs to the landholder, and he does not have to supply a knight for it. Such a special honour gives income without responsibility, and is a relatively rare occurrence.
An enfoeffed manor is one that has a knight that hold it already, and will always have said responsibility.


So when you marry, are the manors (Table 5-4: Random Marrage, pg 109) enfoeffed or demesne?




Since a demesne manor is a special honor, I would say that a player would not get it from a random table roll, so I would go with enfoeffed.
Just my opinion.

Chip

Up to you really.

If you look at some of the named ladies they can come with either or both.

If it was purley the lord giving one as a gift I would say they would tend to be enfoeffed , but through marriage it could be either.

Up to you really.

If you look at some of the named ladies they can come with either or both.

I went with demesne. Thus the PK has 1 additional manor (an extra 6L). He chose to hire a steward (1L/yr). Thus, this PK would earn an additional 5L/year, correct? If he spent all this on "lifestyle", it would make him a rich knight, correct?

We also had our Second Session:

We have the following questions about battles (485 Battle of Mearcred Creek):

One of the PKs got a Major Wound in the opening battle charge. He managed to stay conscious and decided to fight on.

Question: I can't find any skill penalty for a majorly wounded character? Does he fight normally?

Question: The only adverse effect I could find was wound Aggravation. How often do you apply the aggravation damage (3 points for strenous fighting) during a battle? Each battle round is 1/2 hour, but the rules/example for aggravation seem to indicate this damage is applied 1/day after the combat is over...

Question: when the combat is over and they Tend to the Wounded (pg. 213): generally, what do you use for a field hospital's Chirurgery skill?

Question: since the PK was badly wounded, he wanted to fight defensively (pg. 120). I allowed this since it looks like some of the Saxons were allowed to use the Berserk combat tactic (table D-4, pg 215-216). However, after the battle (5 battle rounds) it brought up a very valid point by my players:
Unlike many other "heroic" rpgs, my players were warned that their individual actions on a KAP battle would not generally influence the outcome of a battle (they were fine with this - as it seemed realistic). So they quickly realized that "winning" these individual melee rounds was not as important as surviving the entire battle (also seems realistic). Indeed, the tables for battle enemies don't even list their Hit Points, Major Wounds, or even size for knock-downs (again, fine). But after the wounded PK used the Defensive tactic, every other player asked: why doesn't every player just do that - to ensure their survival? Indeed, the text on pg 121 seems to indicate that it is "perfectly honorable" do do so.

Thanks for the help

Question: since the PK was badly wounded, he wanted to fight defensively (pg. 120). I allowed this since it looks like some of the Saxons were allowed to use the Berserk combat tactic (table D-4, pg 215-216). However, after the battle (5 battle rounds) it brought up a very valid point by my players:
Unlike many other "heroic" rpgs, my players were warned that their individual actions on a KAP battle would not generally influence the outcome of a battle (they were fine with this - as it seemed realistic). So they quickly realized that "winning" these individual melee rounds was not as important as surviving the entire battle (also seems realistic). Indeed, the tables for battle enemies don't even list their Hit Points, Major Wounds, or even size for knock-downs (again, fine). But after the wounded PK used the Defensive tactic, every other player asked: why doesn't every player just do that - to ensure their survival? Indeed, the text on pg 121 seems to indicate that it is "perfectly honorable" do do so.

Thanks for the help


I had exactly the same thought as I ran this battle at the weekend. However, I decided not to let my PCs use any special combat maneuvers in a battle UNLESS it was a special combat event (fighting the enemy hero or commander etc). My reasoning for this was that Battle combat rolls are an abstract resolution of half an hours battle chaos (each battle round being approx half an hour). Obviously, in half an hour the PCs make more than one attack and they suffer more than one attack, the one roll merely determines the outcome of this chaos. Thus fighting Berserk or Defensively is not likely to affect this. Yes it might if the whole unit were doing so, but one individual is not going to make any difference.

I felt comfortable with this. I've played in some very large LARP battles and my personal actions count for nought unless the entire unit does the same. Just my 2p worth.

[quote]I went with demesne. Thus the PK has 1 additional manor (an extra 6L). He chose to hire a steward (1L/yr). Thus, this PK would earn an additional 5L/year, correct? If he spent all this on "lifestyle", it would make him a rich knight, correct?

Yep


One of the PKs got a Major Wound in the opening battle charge. He managed to stay conscious and decided to fight on.

Question: I can't find any skill penalty for a majorly wounded character? Does he fight normally?

Yes

Question: The only adverse effect I could find was wound Aggravation. How often do you apply the aggravation damage (3 points for strenous fighting) during a battle? Each battle round is 1/2 hour, but the rules/example for aggravation seem to indicate this damage is applied 1/day after the combat is over...

Rules and Table table :-

Each incident of aggravation causes 1 or more points of damage directly to current hit points; no wound is recorded. Aggravation
damage occurs immediately after the activity is completed unless the Gamemaster decides otherwise.

Activity
Strenuous (fighting, running. climbing travelling), 3 points of suggested dmg, as a combat round in battle is a lenghty period it would be 3 per battle round. So if injured knight fought for 5 rounds it's 15 hp

Question: when the combat is over and they Tend to the Wounded (pg. 213): generally, what do you use for a field hospital's Chirurgery skill?

I the characters Chirurgery box isn't ticked, first aid. If it is they require a successful chirurgery check before any healing can progress.

Question: since the PK was badly wounded, he wanted to fight defensively (pg. 120). I allowed this since it looks like some of the Saxons were allowed to use the Berserk combat tactic (table D-4, pg 215-216). However, after the battle (5 battle rounds) it brought up a very valid point by my players:
Unlike many other "heroic" rpgs, my players were warned that their individual actions on a KAP battle would not generally influence the outcome of a battle (they were fine with this - as it seemed realistic). So they quickly realized that "winning" these individual melee rounds was not as important as surviving the entire battle (also seems realistic). Indeed, the tables for battle enemies don't even list their Hit Points, Major Wounds, or even size for knock-downs (again, fine). But after the wounded PK used the Defensive tactic, every other player asked: why doesn't every player just do that - to ensure their survival? Indeed, the text on pg 121 seems to indicate that it is "perfectly honorable" do do so.

You don't need the stats for the enemy as unless you got into an extended round you just need to know who wins and loses.

Secondly I would always class an all out defense as a failure as you are doing no dmg to the enemy and thus grant *.5 glory. A good reason to slaughter the Saxon scum and not cower behind your shield.

Also the rules may say one thing, but what others in game may say "Sir Yellow, I am surprised you saw much of the battle as you spent most of it behind your shield"

Question: when the combat is over and they Tend to the Wounded (pg. 213): generally, what do you use for a field hospital's Chirurgery skill?

Unless I had decided beforehand, I would use something like 2d6+3+glory/1000 (the better chirurgeons tend to get snaffled by the most glorious wounded).

Of course if the PC is rich he might have decided to take a chirurgeon into his entourage (see BotM for details of employing skilled specialists).

Regards
Luke

To all

Please keep helping. I don't even recall the old Battle system now.
But the NEW one addresses these issues.
for instance:

Healers at Camp
Knights often suffer damage. First Aid is commonly applied by other knights on the field. When it is not, or when other care is needed, knights go to the infirmary at camp.
Infirmary
Both First Aid and Chirurgery are available from ladies, monks, nuns, and the occasional physician in the Infirmary. Quality of care (skill) is based on rank.
• Royalty: 15+1d6.
• Upper Nobility: 10+2d6
• Knight Vassals: 10+1d6
• Knight Household: 10+1d6
• Squires: 10
• Commoners: 3d6
Personal Attendants
Personal attendants (wife, brother the monk, physician, lady with a mysterious box of unguents, etc.) always have precedence over the impersonal infirmary to tend family.

To say I can't wait for this new book is the understatement of the year.

To say I can't wait for this new book is the understatement of the year.


Ditto. I ran a small battle last time (Lindsey vs Essex, with some Herts and Hunts knights siding with the saxons) using the old system, but I tweaked the sample opponents table on Greg's website to help change things up a bit.

Also I want the knights only table, for when my PCs start playing around with the idea of inventing tournaments...

Regards
Luke