Hi, I'm new to the forums and Pendragon as a whole. Hope this question is in the right place - it seemed to be background rather than rules question.

I'm currently in a Pendragon game in which we're all playing Saxons (Jutes to be specific.)

Through one thing and another we have managed to sail down the trade routes to Byzantium and are laden with more gold that we've ever had before (trading and raiding for over a year with nothing to spend it on) in a city larger and greater than anything we could conceive of.

Our plan is to return home with wonders and covered in glory and use this to advance ourselves and prepare to invade and carve out new fiefdoms in Britain.

They question is: What can we buy in Byzantium (in 444) that will aid us?

The books only tend to list very mundane or knightly things and are not a great deal of help - unless I've missed something important. What kind of things would give us a significant edge in propelling ourselves and our people to the glory and conquest we deserve?

Two of us can just about read Latin and have been gifted a book by a grateful trading house, but this volume is the only book available to us.

One of the characters wants to take back breeding pairs of rabbits and introduce them to Britain a long time before the Normans do.

I'm inclined to think what we need is slaves with specialised knowledge - cartographers etc or new and useful tools, but I don't know what Byzantium has that we Saxons do not. Would a set of carpentry tools from Byzantium be of better quality or different to what we have? Would it turn our concept of woodworking on it's head? One of our party is an accomplished boatbuilder already and we've managed to acquire some better quality chain from Aelves beneath the earth.

Anything suggested will also have to fit on our longship and/or be prepared to return back to the frozen North with us (which means convincing tradesmen and academics will be tricky)

Any ideas?

Thanks

A couple of suggestions:

- De Re Militari, a 54-year-old book by Vegetius, which could be subtitled “How The Roman Army At Their Height Beat Their Enemies and How You Can Too.” Not a big seller in the Western Roman Empire because it stressed things like discipline and training, but the Byzantines loved that stuff (remember that Byzantium will survive another 1,009 years).

- During this period, the Byzantines are transforming their army, assimilating the armor and equipment of the heavy cavalry that had trashed the old Roman infantry armies in places like Adrianople (378). Some sets of saddles with stirrups, lances, and mail – and a set of tools to build more of each -- would make someone pretty powerful in 444 Britain.

Now, your fellow Jutes, Saxons, etc. are dedicated infantry and so probably wouldn’t be interested. But I’ve heard tell of a couple guys named Ambrosius and Merlin – real forward thinkers, might pay top librum for the keys to building a winning, disciplined army of heavy cavalry ….

never underestimate the power of Holy Relics in the hands of an army.
"We scoff at your local saints, behold the sandal of St. Peter from the Church of the twelve Apostles!"

Also, do not forget that Constantinople is a dreadfully expensive city. And that you have to pay for just about anything.
One of my knights once went there. He rented a house, and had to pay taxes, as he now was a resident. He offered himself as a mercenary, so he had to join the mercenary guild (for a hefty fee...) or risk paying a fine as a freebooter, stuff like that.
Just fleece them of their money any way you want. After all, they are the country jokels coming to the big city, and don't know anything about society..... (Unless they have some family living there, who shows them the ropes).
My player left after burning through his money in about a month, and he vowed never to return....

If you do want them to get something special, and not want them to pay for it, let it be gifted to them by that strange one-eyed hermit, who lives in one of the abondened chapels up the street, and insists on them taking this dirty spear, or common hammer, or rusty chain, or dirty copper trumpet.... (well, you get the idea), which will save their lives, once they are back among kinsmen... If they do take it with them, then the item will reveal itself. Otherwise, let them hear the story of the fools who got offered Wodan's spear, or Donar's hammer, etc, and refused it, because they did not see it for what it was...

Everyone has great ideas here. I'd go with Clydwych's method, myself.

A couple other comments.



They question is: What can we buy in Byzantium (in 444) that will aid us?



Armor. If you: 1. can find an armor who can do it; 2. pay him enough; 3. wait long enough to get it.




What kind of things would give us a significant edge in propelling ourselves and our people to the glory and conquest we deserve?



Armor.
Or a gallon of Greek fire. :D




Two of us can just about read Latin and have been gifted a book by a grateful trading house, but this volume is the only book available to us.



And it is probably in Greek anyway.




One of the characters wants to take back breeding pairs of rabbits and introduce them to Britain a long time before the Normans do.


Why not? I want to hear of the adventure of guarding his ship load of hares back home.
Mutiny on the Bunny anyone?




I'm inclined to think what we need is slaves with specialised knowledge - cartographers etc or new and useful tools, but I don't know what Byzantium has that we Saxons do not. Would a set of carpentry tools from Byzantium be of better quality or different to what we have? Would it turn our concept of woodworking on it's head?


Probably not. I doubt the tools are very different.



One of our party is an accomplished boatbuilder already and we've managed to acquire some better quality chain from Aelves beneath the earth.

Anything suggested will also have to fit on our longship and/or be prepared to return back to the frozen North with us (which means convincing tradesmen and academics will be tricky)



I'd suggest you keep the gold and use it to buy prestige through generosity and gift-giving at home/

--Greg

I'd suggest you keep the gold and use it to buy prestige through generosity and gift-giving at home


To expand on this a bit, a quick and easy way to handle it would be to say that whilst the librum value of their booty may not have changed - what it consists of will have changed. So they come in with amber, ivory, slaves, furs and the like; but they leave with peppers, frankincense, silks, porcelain, fabulous jewels, classical statuary etc etc.

They might well get skinned by the merchants in Constantinople; but by the time they get home they find, thanks to the mystery of comparitive advantage, that the exotic nature of their treasure has magically restored it's librum value.

Of course if you and your players want to make a feature of the the spec trade aspect in your game, then you can work up some trait and skill checks that can mod things up and down - but if you target Libra in Byzantium = Libra in Jutland as the result an averagely skilled character would come up with then you won't go far astray I should think. I know Saxons (especially early Saxons) aren't supposed to be as down on the whole 'trade is not an appropriate occupation for a gentlemen' thing as the Cymrics, but this is a game that sees booty as a side effect of glorious adventure rather than the main object.

To quote some guy who seems to know what's what - "Money is for conspicious consumption. Savings don't exist. Speculation is unknown."

Regards
Luke

Another thing is that if u want to take more land in britain, you now have the funds to build a boat or maybe boats and recruit other saxons to aid you. U basically have the funds to become " WARLORDS" and can afford to give your follows rich gifts to fight for you and take land as your people. just a thought anyway... while in the city you might be able to even convince any type of exotic mercenaries that are there to accompany you to gain good land? maybe?

You might sign up with the Varangian Guard for a season or two. See where it takes you, and you'll probably leave with a set of armor and a nice weapon to boot. Even if they don't let you keep your equipment you can no doubt afford to buy good Byzantine armor and weapons with the money you earn.

Expanding on the Varangian Guard post. I would also expect that if the Emperor of the time is very warlike (I didn't google this timeframe in the Eastern Roman Empire to see who the Emperor was, but I believe the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor (Justinian I) was around 520 AD or so) you might get yourself a pretty powerful friend or two. Probably not the Emperor (although this is possible with the right play) but definitely one of his Impreators. Something else to think about and it wouldn't cost you any Libra.

I figure, being the commercial capital of the world, Constantinople should have some pretty exotic stuff. If I were GM, I might allow my players to purchase some of the 'wondrous' potions and ointments available from the list of Lady's Luck items from the Book of Knights and Ladies. Perhaps some items from the other Luck lists, as well. Of course, I'd charge the hell out of them! ;D

I figure, being the commercial capital of the world, Constantinople should have some pretty exotic stuff. If I were GM, I might allow my players to purchase some of the 'wondrous' potions and ointments available from the list of Lady's Luck items from the Book of Knights and Ladies. Perhaps some items from the other Luck lists, as well. Of course, I'd charge the hell out of them! ;D


I think this is an excellent idea. I had a character that bought a potion of healing from that list when we were in Rome after we helped Arthur conquer.