Hi all,
started yesterday with a new campaign as GM (531 start 4E with a few updates from 5th edition) and my new knights all got the hints and took amors for the ladies at Earl Robert court. However when playing out the Romance Solo (not much used in my previous campaign 10 years (RL) ago), I noticed the immense difficulties of the Romance Solo.
First why are there the low difficulties examples mentioned, since the lowest difficulty task is 1D6+6?
And 1D6+6 results in around a -10 skill modifier, I dont know many knights who have 10+ skills in dancing, singing etc...
Especially higher difficulty tasks with -20 modifiers are impossible... or is it the intention the player gets a +10 from Inspiration since he has to roll his Amor first (in order to be allowed to continue with the Romance Solo)?

fg,
Thijs

Which version of the romance solo are you using?

Regards
Luke

4th edition, however indeed I noticed they dropped those difficulties for 5th..

Just noticed, that romantic knights get 50glory/year, is this in addition to the 50glory/year for performing succesfull Romance Solo?
Another thing noticed is that the reluctance factor is lower by the Amor the lady has for the player knight.
How to determine if a Lady has/gains an Amor?
One player has Flirting at 30 (and 17 Appearance) and thinks that his lady should have a lower Reluctance than normal... is that true?
[The player got a +1D3 to his Amor for a succesful flirting attempt (which didnt matter since she was a +10L heiress).]

fg,
Thijs

I will just say that I am not entirely happy with the Romance system, and I am still tinkering with it. We blew through the Romance Period busy with other stuff in my campaign, so I didn't work on it then.

Please, friends, continue to discuss this so I can reap tour perspectives and views as I rework it.

--Greg

I noticed also that players always roll 3D6+10 (max) because +1L/heiress is already reached with two manors (which has save my poor players actually from falling to easily to amor(faery lady) which I planned for the future).
Should there perhaps be a way for a knight to 'change the demanded task' (eg my flirting 30 player prefers to avoid the singing tasks given his 2 skill)?
In 5th Reluctance (RL) lowers automatically 1 per month if I understand correctly, in 4th 1/year. So I dont get 5th, which means after 1 year you are guaranteed RL 0. Also it is mentioned last 3RL can only be resolved by time, yet the tasks are more difficult, so why perform tasks?
Why cant you perform more tasks per year? (this is going to take me 20 years?)
Why cant you give more expensive gifts then 1L and get some bonus?
Also RL goes up if a task is failed. In my game I cancelled that, as 'failure' in Pendragon means for me 'no gain', only a fumble means 'loss compared to what was before'. A woman should be more flattered he at least tried, instead of doing nothing...

But my big question remains, how can you generate an amor in a lady (difference between 20 RL or almost 0RL as a start [starting amor 3d6+10?])?
Does it help having high Appearance?

Also the amor is rolled at 3D6(+10 for 10L/heiress) but a +6 can be gained if she just saved/healed him. How about if this happens later in the game (often the case) does the amor increase by 6 or by 1, do you reroll it, what if the starting passion was only 3D6+4, does the amor increase by 6 or by 1, do you reroll it?

Do I understand that after a succesfull task you EITHER lower RL OR get glory?
[in my game you get both]

You get no more glory after the 10th year so 10 RL is sort off the max then?
Or should you still get 500 glory/year if you continue with your amor. [thats in my game]

Why no longer glory if you have a Love instead of Amor, as long as the love is secret/undiscovered?
Lancelot was getting glory for his love(guinevere) because everyone thought is was amor(guinevere)
[in my game]

On one hand I understand you want to stretch Amor for Amor sake (you want those 10 years of glory), but you want to speed up if you want to marry your amor (those kids must come fast and you dont have eternal life). I think two different methods are needed here.

What are the chaste values of the Ladies at Court in 5th and 4th edition?

fg,
Thijs

But my big question remains, how can you generate an amor in a lady (difference between 20 RL or almost 0RL as a start [starting amor 3d6+10?])?



This is easy.
She has to be a full player character, hence not suitable for a solo.
The rule, in general, is that all PNC have a name, and up to three skills. That's it. No chivalry bonus, no gentlewoman's bonus, no passions, nada.
The Romance rules were made with half an eye to be a guideline for active PCs too.



Why no longer glory if you have a Love instead of Amor, as long as the love is secret/undiscovered?


Couple reasons:
1. Because it is simpler than trying to figure out when the indiscretion is discovered, and how much "discovery" is necessary. Does it count if the washer woman figures it out from the sheets? What if a girl page sees and says nothing? Is that different from a crafty evil sister seeing and being quiet?
2. Because that is the definition: Amor is without intercourse (but with some pretty serious petting allowed, by some theories); Love is when you do have sex; hence, no Glory for Amor!

Although a part of me would give it for a while just because everyone is now being deceived, and "stealing" this glory is akin to "stealing" the love from the husband, form polite society, from religion.



Lancelot was getting glory for his love(guinevere) because everyone thought is was amor (guinevere)
[in my game]


It is possible that they did not actually have sex until G discovered L had done so with Elaine, years ago.
YPWV. There is an arc of suspicion and gossip that is secretly transformed to be a hidden truth, but each GM has to decide on how that happens.

One more thing about my revised thinking:
The maximum that anyone should get in one year for Romance is 100 points.
Basically, that's the maximum anyone ought to get for anything that is passive or off-stage/solo (Land, Chivalry, Title/Rank, Religious, etc.)

--Greg

But my big question remains, how can you generate an amor in a lady (difference between 20 RL or almost 0RL as a start [starting amor 3d6+10?])?



This is easy.
She has to be a full player character, hence not suitable for a solo.
The rule, in general, is that all PNC have a name, and up to three skills. That's it. No chivalry bonus, no gentlewoman's bonus, no passions, nada.
The Romance rules were made with half an eye to be a guideline for active PCs too.


So the 'her reluctance is lowered by amor' is only for PC to PC romance?
When does that ever happen?
Since NPC knight also cant have Amor.. but wait Saxons have Hate (anything Arthurian), so NPCs do have passions, why cant NPC have amor?





Why no longer glory if you have a Love instead of Amor, as long as the love is secret/undiscovered?


Couple reasons:
1. Because it is simpler than trying to figure out when the indiscretion is discovered, and how much "discovery" is necessary. Does it count if the washer woman figures it out from the sheets? What if a girl page sees and says nothing? Is that different from a crafty evil sister seeing and being quiet?
2. Because that is the definition: Amor is without intercourse (but with some pretty serious petting allowed, by some theories); Love is when you do have sex; hence, no Glory for Amor!

Although a part of me would give it for a while just because everyone is now being deceived, and "stealing" this glory is akin to "stealing" the love from the husband, form polite society, from religion.


There are explicit rules for discovery, so you keep getting the glory till discovered, because everyone thinks you are being 'just' amor..



One more thing about my revised thinking:
The maximum that anyone should get in one year for Romance is 100 points.
Basically, that's the maximum anyone ought to get for anything that is passive or off-stage/solo (Land, Chivalry, Title/Rank, Religious, etc.)
--Greg


Wooo, that's quite a change (from the potential 500glory/year).. But I kinda agree with it...
But what is a Player to stop amoring a lady when her tasks become too hard and restart with a fresh amor (since he'll get just 100glory anyway)?
Or do you suggest 10 glory first year increasing with 10/year untill max of 100/year (old glory/5)?

For me there also two different things: 'Romantic knights' and 'Knights with (actively pursued) Amor'..
'Romantic Knight' need certain traits and skills (but not necessary an amor), and is 'Romantic' to all women kinda like Chivalrious
while 'Knights with (actively pursued) Amor' need Amor and perform tasks for this one woman.. (being introspective all the time etc).

fg,
Thijs