Ok,
the rules-lawyer in my rose again.
What is to stop a person from having 20+ squires according BoM (each with a useful 10+ skill at the players choice) as long as you pay for them? Advantage is that squires can earn their pay easily back by escorting prisoners/captured warhorses.
Why take any other retinue with starting 2D6+5, when you can have certified 10 skill (since player can choose), and have a nice bodyguard/servant at the same time...
You can even appoint a squire as steward..


fg,
Thijs

the rules-lawyer in my rose again.


Boy, maybe it is time to quote the officia KAP legal system then:

For All Legal Actions
A knight will tell a lawyer what he wants, pay a fee, and get regular (annual) reports from the clerk on the case. Every so often the clerk will ask for more money. And again, with reports of it moving up the ladder [of courts] that is given below, just for amusement value.
When the GM desires, one of these wayward lawsuits can be settled to encourage or discourage the litigants.

But I'll still answer now. :D



What is to stop a person from having 20+ squires according BoM


Nothing. Or, the Gamemaster. Or, clarification in the rules.

The knight is responsible for training a squire at arms. This entails a personal bond, and I've decided that three individuals is all that is possible in a knights busy life.

Also, a squire is not someone to be hired and let go when he's unaffordable. To do so is an insult to the squire, his family and he institution of knighthood.



(each with a useful 10+ skill at the players choice)


That's on page 10.
Truth is, the starting skills there are wrong. Knights have a value of 10 plus what the player wishes to add at Character Generation. Squires ought not start there.

As you all know I am always tinkering, here's what I currently use in my game:

All squires begin with the three knight skills [now Horsemanship, Lance, Primary Weapon] at 5 each; Courtesy at 5, and one Key Skill of the player’s choice, which starts at 5.



as long as you pay for them?


How much are you paying them? They are normally L1 each.



Advantage is that squires can earn their pay easily back by escorting prisoners/captured warhorses.


Yes they can, if there is a battle.
One note--in a battle, a knight can only have up to 3 squires.



Why take any other retinue with starting 2D6+5, when you can have certified 10 skill (since player can choose), and have a nice bodyguard/servant at the same time...

You can even appoint a squire as steward..


No, you cannot do that. A steward is a full time occupation, and so is squire.

--Greg

the rules-lawyer in my rose again.


Boy, maybe it is time to quote the officia KAP legal system then:

For All Legal Actions
A knight will tell a lawyer what he wants, pay a fee, and get regular (annual) reports from the clerk on the case. Every so often the clerk will ask for more money. And again, with reports of it moving up the ladder [of courts] that is given below, just for amusement value.
When the GM desires, one of these wayward lawsuits can be settled to encourage or discourage the litigants.

But I'll still answer now. :D

:)



The knight is responsible for training a squire at arms. This entails a personal bond, and I've decided that three individuals is all that is possible in a knights busy life.


Ah, simple then, max 3 squires..



All squires begin with the three knight skills [now Horsemanship, Lance, Primary Weapon] at 5 each; Courtesy at 5, and one Key Skill of the player’s choice, which starts at 5.

And how do those skills increase? Same as players (2 skills 1D6/year, or each by 1 point only)? What happened with First Aid?
Courtesy 5, this means that squires know better courtesy then my knights! :(



One note--in a battle, a knight can only have up to 3 squires.


Ok, I get the 3 squires max due to personal training/bonding, but I am a greedy, rich and successful knight, and I want more people to capture those loose running horses for me or escort prisoners back so that I can keep fighting. Can I hire Specialists/Squires/Sergeants for this?

fg,
Thijs

The knight is responsible for training a squire at arms. This entails a personal bond, and I've decided that three individuals is all that is possible in a knights busy life.


Ah, simple then, max 3 squires..




All squires begin with the three knight skills [now Horsemanship, Lance, Primary Weapon] at 5 each; Courtesy at 5, and one Key Skill of the player’s choice, which starts at 5.

And how do those skills increase? Same as players (2 skills 1D6/year, or each by 1 point only)?


Three skills go up one point per year, every year until age 21, at which point the squire generally departs, and a new one gained.



What happened with First Aid?


His skills are now the generic "Knight Skills," which are those needed for combat.
First Aid can be selected.



Courtesy 5, this means that squires know better courtesy then my knights! :(


That is because you used the KAP5 character generation. In K&L Cymric knights start with 5.
Lower the squires to 3 then.






One note--in a battle, a knight can only have up to 3 squires.


Ok, I get the 3 squires max due to personal training/bonding, but I am a greedy, rich and successful knight, and I want more people to capture those loose running horses for me or escort prisoners back so that I can keep fighting. Can I hire Specialists/Squires/Sergeants for this?


No, not to operate in a battle. They would be in the way. Your knight has to maneuver with a unit, which is trained to operate with knights and squires.

But instead, I suggest your filthy rich knight can be your own unit leader (See Book of Battle) with all the NPCs as your Followers.
Tell me what happens.

Problem with current rules (until I receive BoB) is that you have no penalties for decreasing size of your unit.
So if my rich knight hires a whole bunch of mercenaries (who will not be in the way) and orders them to bring those horses/prisoners to the back (for a share in the income) it doesnt hurt the fighting capacity of his unit..

PS: I am the GM, I am just preparing myself for my greedy players.. [and if they dont come up with it, I always have 1 NPC running around that abuses the system as much as possible as a rival to the players 'Oh, no, the character Thijs would have played if he wasnt GM'].

fg,
Thijs

So if my rich knight hires a whole bunch of mercenaries (who will not be in the way) and orders them to bring those horses/prisoners to the back (for a share in the income) it doesnt hurt the fighting capacity of his unit..


On the contrary -- it’ll massively hurt the fighting capacity of his unit. Sir Greedy is pushing into the enemy formation (which you have to do to take captives) and he’s got the ranks behind busy playing with captives instead of adding their weight to the push and filling any gaps in the line the second they appear? That’s called a juicy weak point that’s just begging to be smashed through.

Remember, battle-fronts are crowded places, and anybody who’s focusing on wealth is not only not adding his weight to the battle but is also physically blocking any reinforcements from reaching the line. I’ll bet good money that Sir Greedy is going down, and his commander Will Not Be Pleased at an advance that got turned into a hole in his line.

I fully agree, but its not in the rules..

fg,
Thijs

I fully agree, but its not in the rules..



See if BoB takes care of this.

I fully agree, but its not in the rules..



See if BoB takes care of this.


Just got mine in the mail today – am really looking forward to reading it!

Krijger, in the meantime you may wish to try running the PKs’ fights as (possibly large) Skirmishes with miniatures. Lay out the two forces – as you say, there is nothing in the rules keeping Sir Greedy from filling his second rank with loot-holders – and see how long it takes the guy to realize he’s in trouble.