Hi,
ok tomorrow first battle planned and one of my players has been boosting his battle skills last sessions and so I want to appoint him as a unit commander. This player also has a large number of family knights, so he wants to take those into battle with him.

So the following questions come from this:

How to decide if family knights show up? [I feel this will be answered in the Book of Family]
I'll got with a Loyalty(Family) -1 per step removed

What are the effects of different 'Unit' sizes? My other players are now wondering if it's worthwhile to also take their family knights...
But a bigger unit has no effect..
[Only effect I see is that you get a lot of free Loyalty(Family) rolls when they go down]

My players are all vassal knights, but they dont have archers, sergeants etc hired, but in BoB they are mentioned as standard part of the Lance. Are these men part of the default manor?
[I assume yes]
Are these followers that should be kept track of? [I assume no, you have no passion for them, and they are freely replaced anyway]

An Eschille has about 50 men, so if I put a player knight in charge of an Eschille should I follow the fate of all 50 men?
[I wont, I will only follow fate of knights, assuming that their followers fall with them]

If a player knight has 7 family knights and 33 foot soldiers, should I roll a D40 to see which ones go down?
[I wont, I will only follow fate knights, however that mean that when my players find out they will never take their foot soldiers along]

How about captured followers/knights. In the 'After the battle' there is a table indicating how many followers return, but not if any of the non-returning knights are either dead or captured (because if they are captured they can be ransomed back).
[Perhaps a successful roll with a rating equal to their ransom indicated capture instead of death (so vassal knights are more likely to be captured and spared then household knights). or just 50%]

Hope for input before tomorrow...

fg,
Thijs

ok tomorrow first battle planned and one of my players has been boosting his battle skills last sessions and so I want to appoint him as a unit commander. This player also has a large number of family knights, so he wants to take those into battle with him.

So the following questions come from this:

How to decide if family knights show up? [I feel this will be answered in the Book of Family]
I'll got with a Loyalty(Family) -1 per step removed



Naturally, this depends on the circumstances.
Normally, they would not show up at all. They have their own jobs to worry abut.
Family will come to muster for family business. If a liege lord will not help, can not help, or perhaps should not help, the family might if it is a threat to their collective survival and honor.



What are the effects of different 'Unit' sizes? My other players are now wondering if it's worthwhile to also take their family knights...
But a bigger unit has no effect.

[Only effect I see is that you get a lot of free Loyalty(Family) rolls when they go down]


You are correct.

The book has (all my books have) a lot of options in there, and not because they should be used or ordinarily would be used, but because they might be used. Really, some players will inevitably ask the GM, who will ask me.
By being inclusive I can let someone say, "see page xx"
otherwise, I'ld have more to add here. :)



My players are all vassal knights, but they don't have archers, sergeants etc hired, but in BoB they are mentioned as standard part of the Lance. Are these men part of the default manor?
[I assume yes]


Is it Anarchy Period?
If so, then no standards have been set.
You can presume that it's not in your knights' requirements. His 6 librum won't cover it.



Are these followers that should be kept track of? [I assume no, you have no passion for them, and they are freely replaced anyway]


No. I eventually discarded everything to do with them. There is some fun and challenge in playing them on the field, but it's just a distraction. The GM can just calculate their losses after the battle.



An Eschille has about 50 men, so if I put a player knight in charge of an Eschille should I follow the fate of all 50 men?
[I wont, I will only follow fate of knights, assuming that their followers fall with them]


No, just the ten knights.



If a player knight has 7 family knights and 33 foot soldiers, should I roll a D40 to see which ones go down?
[I wont, I will only follow fate knights, however that mean that when my players find out they will never take their foot soldiers along]


No. Ignore everything to do with the foot soldiers.



How about captured followers/knights. In the 'After the battle' there is a table indicating how many followers return, but not if any of the non-returning knights are either dead or captured (because if they are captured they can be ransomed back).
[Perhaps a successful roll with a rating equal to their ransom indicated capture instead of death (so vassal knights are more likely to be captured and spared then household knights). or just 50%]


Page 59: "Afterwards it is possible that prisoners are traded back and forth, men recover consciousness,..."

All of that is abstracted. No one wants to dink around with details at this point of the game.
If they don't come back after this, they are dead.

Page 59: "Afterwards it is possible that prisoners are traded back and forth, men recover consciousness,..."

All of that is abstracted. No one wants to dink around with details at this point of the game.
If they don't come back after this, they are dead.


Yes, but that doesnt take into account how many prisoners are taken by the players. Also it adds to the 'meta-game' of taking care of your followers.
My players are interested in this very much (talked today about the rules with them and this was their first question and they insisted I come up with rule for it).

fg,
Thijs

All of that is abstracted. No one wants to dink around with details at this point of the game.
If they don't come back after this, they are dead.

Yes, but that doesnt take into account how many prisoners are taken by the players.


Sure it does. it just abstract it so that the player knights keep their prisoners.



Also it adds to the 'meta-game' of taking care of your followers.
My players are interested in this very much (talked today about the rules with them and this was their first question and they insisted I come up with rule for it).


Keep me informed. I am not even sure what value i adds to the game.

All of that is abstracted. No one wants to dink around with details at this point of the game.
If they don't come back after this, they are dead.

Yes, but that doesnt take into account how many prisoners are taken by the players.


Sure it does. it just abstract it so that the player knights keep their prisoners.



Also it adds to the 'meta-game' of taking care of your followers.
My players are interested in this very much (talked today about the rules with them and this was their first question and they insisted I come up with rule for it).


Keep me informed. I am not even sure what value i adds to the game.




So the battle took place, and 3 family members are permanently gone (during the battle actually ALL 7 followers were lost, follower skill 15 against 25 skill opponent is lethal [I did not add mounted bonusses etc though]..
First email I got day after was whether a ransom message was received for those 3 family members.... Dont dare to email Greg's answer...

My players (all physics background) are great with numbers, they love the economic system (they have calculated which are the best investments etc..) and so battle is also an income for them, and captured family is considered an expense..
Also the player wants to increase his family 'love family' (so that they are more likely to help him in the future) and so looks forward to paying some ransoms as these people will 'owe' him then...

fg,
Thijs

So the battle took place, and 3 family members are permanently gone (during the battle actually ALL 7 followers were lost, follower skill 15 against 25 skill opponent is lethal [I did not add mounted bonusses etc though]..
First email I got day after was whether a ransom message was received for those 3 family members.... Dont dare to email Greg's answer...


Of course not!
Well, actually, tell your player that he should not expect it. yea, show them my email
Let them get all melancholy.
But it was their first battle? Maybe one or more comes back, led by some other NPC of future importance.



My players (all physics background) are great with numbers, they love the economic system (they have calculated which are the best investments etc..) and so battle is also an income for them, and captured family is considered an expense..
Also the player wants to increase his family 'love family' (so that they are more likely to help him in the future) and so looks forward to paying some ransoms as these people will 'owe' him then...

It will be a stress test of the system, then.
I know you will keep us informed.

--Greg

Page 59: "Afterwards it is possible that prisoners are traded back and forth, men recover consciousness,..."

All of that is abstracted. No one wants to dink around with details at this point of the game.
If they don't come back after this, they are dead.


Yes, but that doesnt take into account how many prisoners are taken by the players. Also it adds to the 'meta-game' of taking care of your followers.
My players are interested in this very much (talked today about the rules with them and this was their first question and they insisted I come up with rule for it).

fg,
Thijs



Next evening I read Lancelot's passage about the war with Claudas (536 AD in KAP). And there are many exchange of prisoners in this war. IMHO, I think you can replace one follower's death result by exchange one prisoner. For example, a Unit have lost 6 knights at the end of battle and make 1 prisoner. The result could be 5 knights lost but no prisoner.