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Sir Pramalot
01-13-2010, 06:01 PM
What's the best way to determine if a knight actually loves his wife? A rarity maybe, but it must happen sometimes. Or rather if & when should I allow a PC to generate a Passion (Love) roll for her? Just when he asks for it, or a trait roll of some kind?

Hambone
01-13-2010, 08:57 PM
Weve done it several ways. First...if a player asks i let him...but why be saddled with LOVE WIFE, ya know?..Then when u GET MARRIED weve made players roll it...if for no other reason than to see what he would have to overcome to have an AMOR of another woman, or God forbid, LOVE of another. So there is no set rule here.

Sir Pramalot
01-13-2010, 09:31 PM
Palomydes - when you say "we've made players roll it" do you mean you've rolled to see if they have a passion or rolled to see how strong the passion is? If the former, what method did you use?

Hambone
01-13-2010, 09:59 PM
Oh ..sorry... we made them generate a passion, and then ive made them roll4d6+1 at first... but one player argued that it was " JUST " a wife and It should be less, also because he barely knew her yet ( just married ). So I then allowed him to roll a straight 3d6 and let the #'s fall as they may...( he actually rolled a sixteen and was very mad)! :D After this episode I just decided that I would wait until a player asked me for a passion( love wife) roll. and I stick with the rule that if it's in their first year of marriage they only get 3d6, because they dont really know one another yet... And after the first year if they ask for a passion ( Love Wife) I do the full 4d6+1. I also give a +1 to the score per app point above 20. Rare , but it happens. Maybe not " Love" but obsession over the looks at least? So there it is for my games.... :P

Sir Pramalot
01-13-2010, 10:18 PM
I like the APP modifier, will use that myself. Thanks.

Hambone
01-14-2010, 12:29 AM
glad to be of SOME service!

DarrenHill
01-14-2010, 05:01 AM
The way we have done it:

The player decides if he wants a Love (wife) passion. I encourage them not to, but some modern types are romantic about that sort of thing and so they do. ;)

If they don't have a Love (wife) trait, then they don't love her at the passionate level, but she is still a member of the family so Love (Family) can be used if they ever need a passion where she is concerned.

Hambone
01-14-2010, 06:13 PM
The way we have done it:

The player decides if he wants a Love (wife) passion. I encourage them not to, but some modern types are romantic about that sort of thing and so they do. ;)

If they don't have a Love (wife) trait, then they don't love her at the passionate level, but she is still a member of the family so Love (Family) can be used if they ever need a passion where she is concerned.




This is a good way to handle it and is very simple which is nice.

SirDynadan
01-27-2010, 03:20 AM
The way we have done it:

The player decides if he wants a Love (wife) passion. I encourage them not to, but some modern types are romantic about that sort of thing and so they do. ;)

If they don't have a Love (wife) trait, then they don't love her at the passionate level, but she is still a member of the family so Love (Family) can be used if they ever need a passion where she is concerned.


This is pretty much what I do too.
If the player is sure they want to have a passion for their wife (or something happened in-game to cause it) then I usually give them 3d6. (More if there's a good reason.)

Mazza
01-27-2010, 04:03 AM
Why not just use the standard rules for generating an Amor passion? There are modifiers for APP and dowry and for past flirtations etc.

DarrenHill
01-27-2010, 04:16 AM
I use the amor method too.

Sir Pramalot
02-03-2010, 12:33 PM
On a similar topic, if a knight marries a lady of equal or lower standing (not one of the named elite wives from the GPC) does she attend court with him? Or is she deemed too lowly? Or is court just considered part of the knights "work" and he doesn't even think of taking the wife along?

Greg Stafford
02-03-2010, 01:12 PM
On a similar topic, if a knight marries a lady of equal or lower standing (not one of the named elite wives from the GPC) does she attend court with him?


I assume the knight is a vassal.
She will attend court at important functions.



Or is she deemed too lowly?


Absolutely not. She is a Lady, the wife of a knight, therefore "one of us."



Or is court just considered part of the knights "work" and he doesn't even think of taking the wife along?


If he's summoned to fight, of course she stays home (unless she is going to go to the castle).
If he's summoned for advice, she probably stays home. She has Stewardship to do.
If it's a special event--important visitor, wedding, etc.--she attends.
For the winter court, she attends.

If she had been a commoner who married a knight, then the other natural born ladies may put on airs about the newcomer's origins. That isn't a matter of law or custom but the natural laws of social hen pecking order.
Such a wife would probably just keep her place, because they are right: her birth was low and she hasn't learned the ways of court.
Or perhaps she is low, but very, very wealthy; and has attitudes of her own.

Those all might afect her attendance at court.

Spoonist
02-11-2010, 12:02 PM
On a similar topic, if a knight marries a lady of equal or lower standing (not one of the named elite wives from the GPC) does she attend court with him?


I assume the knight is a vassal.
She will attend court at important functions.



Or is she deemed too lowly?


Absolutely not. She is a Lady, the wife of a knight, therefore "one of us."


If she had been a commoner who married a knight, then the other natural born ladies may put on airs about the newcomer's origins. That isn't a matter of law or custom but the natural laws of social hen pecking order.
Such a wife would probably just keep her place, because they are right: her birth was low and she hasn't learned the ways of court.
Or perhaps she is low, but very, very wealthy; and has attitudes of her own.

Those all might afect her attendance at court.


I usually reflect this with their "courtesy" "Stewardship" skills etc. So if they come from humble beginnings they might get only a 2 skill. I would also modify their "industry" since the skillset is not the same going from industry at a farm/burgher to a lady.

This then plays out beautifully. The knight brings his new wife all dressed up to his lord's court. He goes of with the other knights and she is left with the "other" ladies. A couple of courtesy (etiquette) industry (ladies usually gossip and work at the same time) intrigue (yupp that's the gossip) and she is soon in tears searching desperately for her husband to rescue her.

Greg Stafford
02-11-2010, 02:47 PM
I usually reflect this with their "courtesy" "Stewardship" skills etc. So if they come from humble beginnings they might get only a 2 skill. I would also modify their "industry" since the skillset is not the same going from industry at a farm/burgher to a lady.

This then plays out beautifully. The knight brings his new wife all dressed up to his lord's court. He goes of with the other knights and she is left with the "other" ladies. A couple of courtesy (etiquette) industry (ladies usually gossip and work at the same time) intrigue (yupp that's the gossip) and she is soon in tears searching desperately for her husband to rescue her.


Yes, excellent idea. It is the same as giving a commoner starting squire a -10 on all his rolls.

EXCEPT for the Industry roll. For a noble woman that means spinning and weaving, and whereas a common woman also knows how to cook, sow, harvest, garden, etc; she is also an expert at spinning and weaving, which all women do all the time.

Spoonist
02-11-2010, 04:02 PM
I usually reflect this with their "courtesy" "Stewardship" skills etc. So if they come from humble beginnings they might get only a 2 skill. I would also modify their "industry" since the skillset is not the same going from industry at a farm/burgher to a lady.

This then plays out beautifully. The knight brings his new wife all dressed up to his lord's court. He goes of with the other knights and she is left with the "other" ladies. A couple of courtesy (etiquette) industry (ladies usually gossip and work at the same time) intrigue (yupp that's the gossip) and she is soon in tears searching desperately for her husband to rescue her.


Yes, excellent idea. It is the same as giving a commoner starting squire a -10 on all his rolls.

EXCEPT for the Industry roll. For a noble woman that means spinning and weaving, and whereas a common woman also knows how to cook, sow, harvest, garden, etc; she is also an expert at spinning and weaving, which all women do all the time.



I'd disagree. The materials used would not be the same. The techniques used would not be the same. Unless the humble wife would be of burghers with seamstress experience she wouldn't know how to adapt her skillset to the new intent and purpose.
There is a difference between making rustic, durable and warm clothes vs making intricate, beautiful and fine clothes.

As I say I do it with a modifier (-5, -10 or 50% depending on background) when the wife is using her industry skill in a court setting. When she is at home at the household I let her use her full skill.

Hambone
03-09-2010, 06:46 AM
I usually reflect this with their "courtesy" "Stewardship" skills etc. So if they come from humble beginnings they might get only a 2 skill. I would also modify their "industry" since the skillset is not the same going from industry at a farm/burgher to a lady.

This then plays out beautifully. The knight brings his new wife all dressed up to his lord's court. He goes of with the other knights and she is left with the "other" ladies. A couple of courtesy (etiquette) industry (ladies usually gossip and work at the same time) intrigue (yupp that's the gossip) and she is soon in tears searching desperately for her husband to rescue her.


Yes, excellent idea. It is the same as giving a commoner starting squire a -10 on all his rolls.

EXCEPT for the Industry roll. For a noble woman that means spinning and weaving, and whereas a common woman also knows how to cook, sow, harvest, garden, etc; she is also an expert at spinning and weaving, which all women do all the time.



I'd disagree. The materials used would not be the same. The techniques used would not be the same. Unless the humble wife would be of burghers with seamstress experience she wouldn't know how to adapt her skillset to the new intent and purpose.
There is a difference between making rustic, durable and warm clothes vs making intricate, beautiful and fine clothes.

As I say I do it with a modifier (-5, -10 or 50% depending on background) when the wife is using her industry skill in a court setting. When she is at home at the household I let her use her full skill.








Do the wives of burghers generally work in silks, or what? I would think not. They probably buy their nicer clothes from professionals. I heartily doubt they work with materials that were much different than any other woman. If they did then they wouldnt spend such an extravagant amount on clothing, most likely. can we go into the skillsets with some examples here. I dont know how spinning one material is soo much different than another. also what materials are we talking about exactly? Generally wool and linen right. The counts wife probably does not spin or make much else.

Spoonist
03-09-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm going to guess that you are addressing me here? Do you mind if I respond to each sentance seperately below?

The sentiment above was in response to Greg. My opinion is that the industry skill set of a wife of humble background is not the same as that of a lady. If that humble wife would be in a situation which would require the skill set of a lady she should get a penalty to her skill.
So lets see how you argue against that.


Do the wives of burghers generally work in silks, or what? I would think not.

I do not know what you are trying to address here. As per my example only a burgher seamstress or the daughter of a tailor would have experience with finer material and finer works.


They probably buy their nicer clothes from professionals.

Depends on which period you are talking about. The rich burgher class is a reltive late thing in the feudal setting. So they just like almost everyone else are making their own clothes. Only one or possibly two suits (for the really rich) of clothing might be purchased for finer occations.


I heartily doubt they work with materials that were much different than any other woman.

Who? The humble burgher or the lady? Of course the material/quality would be different. Someone who is obligated to make court appearances will certainly make certain they have finer fabrics. If you have felt or worked with different wool/linen fabric you would know the difference of fine and durable. They behave entirely different.



If they did then they wouldnt spend such an extravagant amount on clothing, most likely.
Just buying the fabrics themselves is prohibatively expensive. Especially in color. There are reasons why some colors have instrinsic royal ascosiations. Like purple. Some color dyes where really hard to get. Making them only affordable to the elite.
On top of this you have threading, emroidery and accessories. So even if you are making your own clothes, if you want them to look even remotely like your class then just the raw materials will definately be ludicrously expensive.


can we go into the skillsets with some examples here.

Sure but why would we need to? It still boils down to opinions and GM fiat. It doesn't matter so much if you and I have a different view on an anachronistic feudal world...



I dont know how spinning one material is soo much different than another.

Ouch. I would say that its big. But even if you don't believe me just think about quality. The ladies have better teachers/servants/equipment/raw material/time/etc to utilise all that they have spent their entire upbringing doing this. If you think there would be no discernable difference then you are underestimating the proffiency of this craft.



also what materials are we talking about exactly?

Again, why would it matter? There are literally dozen of techniques just for wool. Add to that quality, and then sprinkle it with local flaire for good measure.



Generally wool and linen right.

Yes. But depending on how fantastic or anachronistic your setting is.



The counts wife probably does not spin or make much else.

Spin? Isn't that what servants and maids-in-waiting are for? So that the counts wife can do something more proper with her stature, like embroidering. Something which no commoner could afford.
You are bringing in a completely different creature here. The counts wife indeed, whatever would she have with manorial PKs marrying below their stature?


It is like saying that just because a carpenter has built a house he can make furniture or because he has made coffins he can make fine chests.
But again, mind you this is just opinions based on my take on the anachronistic version of an idealized feudal world. ;Make of it what you will.