I've noticed that the javelin is a completely knightly weapon that can be freely thrown by honorable knights, and is no more dishonorable than specializing in the axe or mace instead of the sword. So, before I go about making my very own javelineer, questions.

1: Can an unorthodox (say, Roman) knight use a javelin on the First Charge instead of lowering a lance? Would that disrupt battalion or unit performance or otherwise get anyone on the knight's own side pissed off?
2: As a javelin is a missile weapon, does the knight who's opposing it on the FC get the Lance +5 bonus? (I'd guess not, but...)
3: Does anyone know how many javelins can easily be carried in a quiver?
4: Missile weapons used in the First Charge are rolled as if in melee. Does that mean that if the javelin hits, the enemy's attack misses?

Just as a side note, it was apparently common to use thrown spears in tournaments even late into the period:
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2007/02/fighting-with-thrown-lances-in-15th-c.html
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2007/02/merle-vs-de-chargny-1435-thrown-lance.html

I'd say that players are under obligation to use lances during the lance charge. If they start throwing spears or using other weapons, the impact of the charge (where all lances hit the enemy simultaneously) is lost.

In reality, it may not have worked quite like that, but it works well enough for the game.

If it was allowed, I'd go one of two ways:

Simple method
Treat javelin just like a lance charge - neither side gets the +5.
This fits in with the rule about treating missile weapons as melee during the first charge. BUT I'm not keen on that, since the rules assume that all knights will be using lances, and that the missile attacks coming in at them are an abstraction of many arrows flying through the air - not necessarily the specific opponent they are targetting.

So, the method I'm more likely to adopt if *players* rather than their npc opponents use missile weapons:

More complex method:
When players use missile weapons against a charge, resolve them separately. Let the players make their missile attacks, and if they do enough damage they might not face an attack. Then their opponents charge them, with a +5 bonus for using lances v effectively unarmed opponents (maybe even +10!).

It may seem like double standards are at work, but the situation isn't symmetric.
When they players charge into a bunch of missile weapon foes, those foes are sending a hail of arrows (maybe more than one each), and aren't aiming at specific knights. The knights are rolling to see if their survive/avoid that barrage to be able to make their attack

When the players make missile attacks, they are a single archer or javelineer, with a single target - the foe charging them. The rules don't need to be the same for these two different situations.

I've noticed that the javelin is a completely knightly weapon that can be freely thrown by honorable knights, and is no more dishonorable than specializing in the axe or mace instead of the sword. So, before I go about making my very own javelineer, questions.

1: Can an unorthodox (say, Roman) knight use a javelin on the First Charge instead of lowering a lance? Would that disrupt battalion or unit performance or otherwise get anyone on the knight's own side pissed off?

It's technically possible, but not so great tactically. For an average knight, a lance charge has a much better chance of succeeding, and inflicts about 3 times the damage. And hoestly, I doubt that knights would have the dicipline to hold off and let fly.

I think the best time to use them would be before a charge, probably as a combined action.

What the Roman Legions used to do is to throw two pila (the roman javelin) at a an enemy enemy rather than charging in order to disrupt their formation. Pila has soft iron heads that would bend on impact. This meant that if they missed they couldn't be thrown right back at the Legionaries, and if they hit a shield, they would tend to penetrate the shield and make it useless. The the Romans would simply advance as line and mow down the enemy like a lawnmower goes through grass.

So a lot of foes usually had to decide between continuing the charge without a shield, and be practically defenseless against the heavily armored romans, or stop.Asos with the Legions, the second or even third rank could throw javelins making for a really large mass of javelins.




2: As a javelin is a missile weapon, does the knight who's opposing it on the FC get the Lance +5 bonus? (I'd guess not, but...).

Probably. They give it to knights facing archers and use an opposed roll, so I guess it represents the emotional impact of seeing a guy on horseback bearing down on you--especially considering that Javelin max range is only slight greater than a horse's charge distance at full gallop. Having half a ton of man, horse and spear coming at you at over 20 mph is definitely unsettling.



3: Does anyone know how many javelins can easily be carried in a quiver?

Yeah, none. Javelins usually weren't carried in a quiver, per say, but were typically carried loose, tied with a cord, or wrapped up in a skin. Historically only about 2 or 3 were carried. They tended to be much more efficient that they are in Pendragon, but then most opponent's are not garbed in nice metal armor.

From what I've seen about the Romans, two javelin volleys typically took the fight out of most foes. But then, two 2d6 hits would do that to most unarmored characters in Pendragon.

But, if someone were to stick sone javelins into a quiver, I guess they could get about three or four into one.



4: Missile weapons used in the First Charge are rolled as if in melee. Does that mean that if the javelin hits, the enemy's attack misses?


Yeah. Basically the missiles disrupt the charge. It's not so much that the javelin out fought the foe, but that the knight might have hand to veer off or raise his shield and slow down to protect himself from the javelin. At least in a battle.

In a smaller fight, the Javelin would probably hit a round or two before the knight could cross the distance.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Given the fact that battle rounds are a huge abstraction, I'm going to go with the following.

1: It's an opposed roll. The reason for this is that logically, you could get off two or three javelins, or toss a javelin and then couch a lance, before the big guy on the other horse charges into you, and that's hard to model in a battle.
2: If you're not throwing in a volley, the lancer gets a +5. You're trying to aim against someone who's about to slam his big long rod into you. If a unit is armed with the same missile weapons (archers, French or Saxons with throwing axes, Spanish or Roman javelineers) and uses them together in volleys, then it's equivalent to a greatspear in terms of opposing the enemy and neither side is advantaged. A volley of javelins should be even scarier than charging down at Agincourt. (Needless to say, most Cymric knights will not be fighting in such a unit.)
3: The First Charge is about coordinated impact, so for game purposes, if you're charging you must use a lance. (Yes, you're welcome to throw your javelin at thirty yards, then grab and couch your lance for the charge, but it's a pain to model and the First Charge is about the lances.) Once the melee breaks out, or if you're not charging (your horse was killed at Bedegraine and you're fighting on foot), do what you want.

I've noticed that the javelin is a completely knightly weapon that can be freely thrown by honorable knights, and is no more dishonorable than specializing in the axe or mace instead of the sword.



At least during Uther's period, while the tactics of the couched lance charge are not yet dominant.




So, before I go about making my very own javelineer, questions.

1: Can an unorthodox (say, Roman) knight use a javelin on the First Charge instead of lowering a lance? Would that disrupt battalion or unit performance or otherwise get anyone on the knight's own side pissed off?



Normally the mounted milites armed with javelin are put together into their own unit. (See Book of Armies for examples)



2: As a javelin is a missile weapon, does the knight who's opposing it on the FC get the Lance +5 bonus? (I'd guess not, but...)


Yes, he does.



3: Does anyone know how many javelins can easily be carried in a quiver?


I think it's irrelevant, but I would suggest that more than one round's worth would be clumsy, and that the squire cold carry another quiver full (he normally carries a replacement for each weapon)



4: Missile weapons used in the First Charge are rolled as if in melee. Does that mean that if the javelin hits, the enemy's attack misses?


Yes.

I note below mention of throwing a javelin and couching lance.
I might rule this possible for a player knight.

First, note that such a "double attack" is extremely special, as per Books of Battle and Armies (The D attack). Discuss whether the player has had the training for such, and is fighting in a unit of similarly armed riders. If yes to both, sure!
However, when using javelins such a unit is normally a skirmishing unit, and will sprint away when attacked by lance.

If no to either, then I'd offer it as a usual form of combat, but require a split attack--some part to the javelin, some part to the lance.
Note that allowing this weapon change at the end of a charge, when the horses have been galloping at maximum speed and the maximum need of a knight's unit training, is either an extraordinary gift to the player, or ought to be charged a penalty of minus 5, at least.

--Greg