Log in

View Full Version : The Deadliest Warrior: How the knight did (SPOILERS)



Gideon13
04-14-2010, 07:37 PM
Spike TV has a series called The Deadliest Warrior, wherein they simulate combat between different warriors from history to see who would win.

Season 1, Episode 4 pitted the knight vs. a pirate. The pirate won due to some “You have GOT to be KIDDING!” level inaccuracies (the show was clearly rooting for the pirate). I would like to summarize what they got right and what they got wrong because it might affect how people picture a Knight vs. Brigand (or Mordred With Cool Toys) battle – and frankly because I’m still annoyed at the results.

The pirate was unarmored and was armed with Grenado (a primitive grenade), Flintlock Pistol, Blunderbuss, Cutlass, and Boarding Axe. The knight wore 16-point plate and was armed with Morningstar, Broadsword (actually Arming Sword), Crossbow, and Halberd.

First they tested weapon effectiveness.

Close Range: Cutlass vs. Broadsword. They called this even because both swords sliced a pig carcass in half. However, they neglected to test damage against what the other guy was wearing – which is odd because they had done so in the previous episode (Viking vs. Samurai). A cutlass, in reality, is danged ineffective vs. 16-point-plate – it’s a slicing, not a chopping weapon. Also, when knights shifted to plate they dropped the shield so they could use hand-and-a-half swords and other two-handed weapons -- but that's not what the show tested against the cutlass.

Mid Range: Blunderbuss vs. Halberd. The blunderbuss misfired once, then penetrated the thickest part of the plate when it did fire, making one hole. The halberd was reliable and murdered its target. After much discussion they gave an edge to the Blunderbuss.

Long Range: Flintlock vs. Crossbow. The flintlock dented but didn’t penetrate the plate. They also showed the flintlock’s inaccuracy vs. the crossbow. Edge: Crossbow. Of course, knights normally never used crossbows in combat.

Special Weapons: Grenado vs. Morningstar. Great video of a Morningstar pulping a skill and emptying the contents thereof. Also the guy using it had to armor up to protect himself against his own weapon, showing the morningstar’s downside. They then tested the Grenado at point-blank range against some pig carcasses, one of which was armored. The unarmored pigs were shredded. The armor, again, protected its wearer, but they gave the edge to the Grenado because the big explosion Looked Cool, citing its unmeasured shock effect (as if maces, etc. don’t have shock effects that a fighter learns to fight through?).

Then they showed the simulation. The knight on horseback, with Morningstar and heater shield (Wrong -- when plate came in, shields went out except for tourney jousts) charges the pirate. The pirate fires a flintlock (ping! off armor) – and the knight misses! Another charge, another drawn-flintlock-and-ping, the Morningstar that pulped a skull hits the pirate in the shoulder – and merely knocks him back. Finally the pirate gets smart and throws the instantly-lit grenado (Wrong – it’s not instant, and you certainly won’t get it done while you’re being charged in melee) at the knight’s steed. This not only unhorses the knight, but sends his shield flying (Wrong – heater shields have forearm straps and guiges in addition to the handle to keep this from happening).

The pirate approaches the knight and gets shot in the leg by the crossbow (Wrong – it takes a while to cock a crossbow, and how did the bolt stay loaded when the shield went flying?). Pirate shoots knight with the blunderbuss, knocking him down and wounding but not killing him. I strongly doubt that the blunderbuss would have been nearly as effective if he’d still had his shield.

The foes then cross swords for several rounds, to no effect. For some reason the knight never thinks to stop parrying and simply All-Out Attack, taking the 4D6 hit on his 16-point armor and chopping the pirate into shark chum.

Eventually the knight grapples the pirate – only instead of using some of the unarmed fighting techniques the period fechtbuchen showed were part of knightly training, the knight can’t move because of his heavy armor (that old myth again!). At which point the pirate pulls out yet another flintlock from his Bag of Holding (a pirate could hold 7-9 flintlocks plus his other weapons? Come on!), lifts up the knight’s visor, and shoots him.

In summary, the show had some great gory shots of weapons vs. unarmored targets. But please, folks, don’t think it represents reality.

Eothar
04-14-2010, 08:00 PM
It's just best not to know too much if you watch those shows...

Earl De La Warr
04-14-2010, 08:24 PM
I just caught the end of that show. Just in time to see the Pirate shrug off a solid hit with the Morning star.

I also disagree with their conclusions. I worry about the sophistication of their modeling software 'ie an Excel spreasheet'.

As you pointed out, they completely miss the effect of armour on the encounter.

doorknobdeity
04-15-2010, 04:11 AM
"science" programming is garbage, "historical" programming is garbage, this is only the logical conclusion
(pbs excluded of course)


http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100226.gif (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1804)

Hambone
06-20-2010, 12:12 AM
yeah..while entertaining ONLy because its fun to watch em hit the stupid manequin, its garbage. They convieniently leave out certain thimgs and then Overemphasize others to get whatever desired outcome they want. NOT ONCE have any of them made sense.Also you have to factor in terrain as well, and they never do. If the knight was horsed with lance and they were in the open then you would soon have one dead purate. But pirates of the caribbean is popular riht now, so people who dont know better want the pirate to win. Pirates were opportunists in genmeral. Not disciplined, etc.... knights lived their lives training and training some more for combat. IT was their reason for being. Their JOB. They r often portrayed as clumsy, and slow and stupid. As we all know there is nothing further from the truth. They were the elite of their day. I guess if a knight in full plate was on foot and attacked a pirate on a moving ship in the ocean then maybe the pirate has gthe advantage, right? LOL

Ninja's also kill spartans, ( who LIVED THEIR LIVES AS WARRIORS)
Samurai kills Vikings ( Bul*s*iT)!
I forget what the apaches defeated but that was crap too , i remember.( greek Hoplite maYbe)?

The show is silly thats for sure :P

Earl De La Warr
06-20-2010, 07:46 AM
The apache defeated a Gladiator. Again, in dispute.

It seems to boil down that Modern is better than ancient.

DarrenHill
06-20-2010, 08:22 PM
"science" programming is garbage, "historical" programming is garbage, this is only the logical conclusion
(pbs excluded of course)


That strip is hilarious, and the contrast so true. And I'll be giggling for some time at this line: "Enough to melt the sun into a star!"

Hambone
06-21-2010, 06:16 PM
The apache defeated a Gladiator. Again, in dispute.

It seems to boil down that Modern is better than ancient.


Thats right... I remeber now.

Yeah ..those gladiators were real sissies. Not to take anything away from the apache, but wasnt fighting the ONLY thing a gladiator did all day long day after day? I wonder if the same can be said of the apache? I agree. Modern does seem to win out almost every time. Flaw in his program?