OK, I spent a couple of hours last night noting up my book of battle with the errata (http://www.gspendragon.com/erratabob.html), and the comments/clarifications that i found trawling through here. One I've played through some battle games I will see about offering a combined sheet(s) that can be downloaded.

I've read the book a couple of times now as Ii work on my player handouts and ready reference cards and I still have a rpoblem with distinguishing retreat/withdraw.

In the errata Greg writes:
<<<Follow: Enemy movement away is voluntary, and they are attempting to Withdraw. Their Battle Intensity must be 15 or more for an orderly withdrawal of this type.

Pursue: Enemy movement away is NOT voluntary if the Battle Intensity is less than 15. They involuntarily Retreat.

Chase: Enemy movement is a massive panic, and the whole army is trying to Run Away. This is a Rout, a Decisive Victory.>>

This is the same text that gets repeated in the message here...
http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=444.0 Determining how the enemy is exiting.

I am trying to reconcile this with the entry at
http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=441.0
Here the army withdraws not retreats at 15 and 25
Quote from Greg - <<<On page 20, the Automatic Action at 15 and 25 is to Withdraw>>> which is how I amended my book.

Now, as I understand the errata:
~when the enemy is withdrawing, then my battle option is to follow
~when the enemy is retreating, then my battle option is to puruse
~when the enemy is routing, then my battle option is to chase.

If the retreat option comes in at intensity 15, then when does the withdraw option take place? Vice versa is also a question I have, if withdraw takes place at 15, then when does retreat occur, given that rout occurs at 0.

Taking this one stage further, on page 56, it refers to a short battle ending when one side withdraws. This may or not bea withdraw in the sense of the only battle option being to follow. It says that it will take 3 turns for the army to withdraw. So, whenever a withdrawal is triggered (which is the point of hte above) are a further 3 battle rounds always fought, using the follow option (unless players want to do something like stop, disengage or remain disengaged) unless a retreat or rout is achieved in the 3 rounds?

Chris

I am trying to reconcile this with the entry at
http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=441.0


I think it's simpler than you think.
Check the glossary.

Retreat: A retreat is any move back 1 Zone, whether voluntary (withdraw, run away maneuvers) or not (recoil 1 Zone or move back 1 Zone results).

"Retreat" is a generic term for going back, and describes the larger set of various ways to go back

I am trying to reconcile this with the entry at
http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=441.0


I think it's simpler than you think.
Check the glossary.

Retreat: A retreat is any move back 1 Zone, whether voluntary (withdraw, run away maneuvers) or not (recoil 1 Zone or move back 1 Zone results).

But, when in game terms does a "retreat occur", given the go after the enemy options (table 10, page 31) and the comments above that the options are:
Follow - enemy army is withdrawing - which occurs at intensity 15
Chase - enemy army is routing - which occurs at intensity 0

When is the enemy "retreating" for me to use to the "Pursue" manouvre on page 31 ?

Chris

But, when in game terms does a "retreat occur", given the go after the enemy options (table 10, page 31) and the comments above that the options are:
Follow - enemy army is withdrawing - which occurs at intensity 15
Chase - enemy army is routing - which occurs at intensity 0

When is the enemy "retreating" for me to use to the "Pursue" manouvre on page 31 ?


That's clear!

Aha, yes, that is a different question.
I thought this was in the errata.

To Follow, the enemy Intensity is 15+
To Pursue, Intensity is less than 15
To Chase, the enemy must be Running

But, when in game terms does a "retreat occur", given the go after the enemy options (table 10, page 31) and the comments above that the options are:
Follow - enemy army is withdrawing - which occurs at intensity 15
Chase - enemy army is routing - which occurs at intensity 0

When is the enemy "retreating" for me to use to the "Pursue" manouvre on page 31 ?


That's clear!

Aha, yes, that is a different question.
I thought this was in the errata.

To Follow, the enemy Intensity is 15+
To Pursue, Intensity is less than 15
To Chase, the enemy must be Running



Ok, so at less than 15 the enemy is retreating - which allows me the pursue option. It follows from this that the entry on page 20 of book of battle - Automatic Actions - should be un-errated to read as was originally printed "The enemy army signals a general retreat" (one set of errata has it replaced with enemy army signals a withdrawal).

Which brings me back to the question of when does an army "withdraw" and when do I use the follow action? Withdraw is not an automatic action. We don't keep track of what enemy units are doing so there is no mechanism whereby they withdraw. At intensity above 15 the enemy fights as normal? So, an army will never be "withdrawing" as I see it, other than by GM fiat.....

Chris

Which brings me back to the question of when does an army "withdraw" and when do I use the follow action? Withdraw is not an automatic action. We don't keep track of what enemy units are doing so there is no mechanism whereby they withdraw. At intensity above 15 the enemy fights as normal? So, an army will never be "withdrawing" as I see it, other than by GM fiat.....


Correct.
Or by story requirements.

Which brings me back to the question of when does an army "withdraw" and when do I use the follow action? Withdraw is not an automatic action. We don't keep track of what enemy units are doing so there is no mechanism whereby they withdraw. At intensity above 15 the enemy fights as normal? So, an army will never be "withdrawing" as I see it, other than by GM fiat.....


Correct.
Or by story requirements.


Thanks Greg for the answer. Now to run some big battles over the weekend (prior to Continuum) and go through this intensity argument about retreat (with intentsity below 15) in the other thread.

Avalon... your putting in some real work here! You rock! 8)