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Tychus
07-05-2010, 07:31 AM
I'm unclear on the concept of the Widow's Gift. Does a woman who outlives her (landed) husband always receive 1/3 holdings, or is it only when there is no heir? For example, say Sir Ambrut dies holding 3 manors. If he has no heir, his wife receives 1 as a widow's gift, and the other 2 either go back to other relatives on his side, or return to the liege, right? But if he instead had an heir, wouldn't the heir receive all 3 manors? Does it make a difference if the heir is of age or not?

If the widow remarries and later produces a child, will her widow's holding pass on to her child, or are they "gifts", returned to the liege upon her death (even if the original charter for that land was a grant)?

Part of my confusion comes from the description of Lady Indeg, whose holdings are described as: 2 demesne manors, plus L2/yr extra income, and Widow's Holding (Gifts) of 3 manors.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Greg Stafford
07-05-2010, 08:42 AM
I'm unclear on the concept of the Widow's Gift.


More formally, a dower, or jointure.
It is normally part of the marriage contract.



Does a woman who outlives her (landed) husband always receive 1/3 holdings, or is it only when there is no heir?


Always



For example, say Sir Ambrut dies holding 3 manors. If he has no heir, his wife receives 1 as a widow's gift, and the other 2 either go back to other relatives on his side, or return to the liege, right?


Yes



But if he instead had an heir, wouldn't the heir receive all 3 manors?


No



Does it make a difference if the heir is of age or not?


No
The heir has to wait until she dies to regain control of the portion.



If the widow remarries


Remarriage is often, not always, a cause for her to forfeit her claim on the land



and later produces a child, will her widow's holding pass on to her child, or are they "gifts", returned to the liege upon her death (even if the original charter for that land was a grant)?


They always remain in the bloodline of the husband, so after her death it reverts to whatever heir is there



Part of my confusion comes from the description of Lady Indeg, whose holdings are described as: 2 demesne manors, plus L2/yr extra income, and Widow's Holding (Gifts) of 3 manors.


2 demense manors means she does not have to supply knights--ie, profit
L2/yr, profits again

3 manors means she was married to a rich man, or maybe to 3 lesser ones!

Earl De La Warr
07-06-2010, 01:16 PM
Thank you Tychus for asking and Greg for the answers.

This had puzzled me for a while, but since none of my players delved deeper into it, I chose to remain blissfully ignorant.

I can see now how it works and how to use it in my game. When we restart the campaign, I already have 2 widows (Lady Indeg one again :o) which we need to sort out.