Hey all!

When I played in a Pendragon campaign a few years ago whenever the PKs attended a feast we'd roll a d20 against this table which had random feast events, does anyone remember/know which supplement/edition of Pendragon this comes from as I'd like to add it in to my game when I start up in September!

Land of Giants, I think you'll find...

So it is! Thanks a lot. :)

Land of Giants? Hardly!

The tables you are thinking of originally appeared in Knights Adventurous and were reprinted in Tales of Mystic Tournaments.

Wow, Knights Adventurous has a lot of stuff in here! 'Tis even better. :D

I wrote some rules that expanded on this a while back and I've taken the liberty of pasting them below for your entertainment. The rules themselves have not been playtested (my group has not played for months) or edited, they were just my ideas hastily written down, so please take them at face value. However, even without the rules, the extra events could easily be dropped into the existing table to add more variety - something I'm always keen on.

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FEAST EVENTS (PART ONE)

Feasts are occasions for more than eating. Politics, romance - or its baser cousin - and the opportunity for glory are ever-present possibilities. Below are some tables to help the Gamemaster in running a feast. Some events will be quite ordinary while others are more momentous. (this text straight from the book)

Determining The Outcome
The size of a feast determines the possible number of events that can take place over the course of the evening. The number of events also determines how many knights can be affected each round. For example, a medium sized feast (the typical size of a courtly feast) has three “rounds” of events, of which up to 3 knights per round may be involved in.

The APP Roll
APP is the most useful stat in a feast setting. It indicates how charming and sociable the knight is which in turn influences those around him and draws attention. The more outgoing you are the more likely you will be involved in something.
At the start of each feast round all player knights make an APP roll. The most successful characters (the exact number of which is determined by the size of the feast) are then entitled to make an event roll.

No. of Rounds
Small Feast - 1
Medium Feast - 2
Large Feast - 3
Royal Feast - 5
Outcome of host Temperate/Indulgent roll +0/1 round.
Note: Very special events become less likely the longer a feast goes on. Each round after the first incurs a -5, -10, then -15 modifier to LUC for such events.

APP Roll
Critical = +5 to all rolls this round.
Success* = Top x players roll for an event.
Failure = No event roll.
Fumble = Poor mood forces retirement.
* where x equals the number of feast events.

PART TWO (THE TABLES)

EVEN APP rolls use Table 1, ODD use Table 2.

Table 1: EVEN Events (D20)
1. NOT LAST ROUND - Another round of food is brought out! Roll Temperate/Indulgent.
LAST ROUND ONLY - A drunken knight has trouble keeping his feet while dancing and he wildly bumps into you. Roll DEX or he sends you sprawling onto the floor. Success and you keep your feet. The event triggers a Forgiving/Vengeful roll. If Forgiving and you keep your feet you catch him and stop his fall. He will thank you for that 10 Glory. If Vengeful you let him fall.
2. A pretty serving girl flirts quite openly with you. Roll Chaste/Lustful and if Lustful LEAVE FEAST.
3. Nearby Knights are boasting of their great deeds. Roll Proud to join in (16+ Characters must roll). Roll Orate versus 1d6 opponents, with Traits of 2d6+6 each. All successes gain 10 Glory and will impress any named knights.
4. Another knight praises you. Roll Modest/Proud. Gain 10 Glory and a relationship boost if relevant.
5. There is a quarrel nearby. Roll Just vs. Proud value of 2d6+6. Success vs a named knight will improve relations. If this is a named encounter choose two characters who dislike each other.
6. Ladies at the table ask you to Sing or Play (instrument), player’s choice. Success gains 10 Glory and can improve relations.
7. A drunken knight is a little boorish towards you. Choose (or roll) Modest/Proud and if Proud then roll Forgiving/Merciful. If Vengeful fisticuffs may ensue. If Merciful the knight may look favourably upon you.
8. Merlin or Gaius (depending on who is present) tells tales of faeries (Merlin) or is having an in depth discussion about medicine (Gaius). A successful roll grants a tick in either Faerie Lore or First Aid.
9. NOT LAST ROUND Drinking Contest. Roll Indulgent (16+ must roll) to join and then CON vs 1d6 opponents. Each success grants 10 Glory. LAST ROUND ONLY - Grapple (or body wrestle) contest. Roll STR to join and then Grapple vs “the champ” (DEX & Grapple 12+1d6). Gain 20 Glory if successful and take title.
10. A lady asks to dance with you. Partial success earns 10 Glory, Success earns 20.
11. A discussion about (d6) 1=Boating, 2=Falconry, 3=Gaming, 4=Hunting, 5=Religion, 6=Battle is going on nearby which you can choose to join (Proud 16+ must roll) with 2 other knights. All successes gain 10 Glory (20 for Critical).
12. A lady sitting nearby is watching you. You can roll Flirting (16+ Lustful must roll) for 10 Glory.
13. A named lady passes by and glances at you. Make an APP check. If successful she compliments you on your clothes, jewels, hair style, etc,. otherwise she takes no notice and moves on. This may can improve relations and may also trigger a Proud/Modest roll.
14. You feel tired and think about retiring. Roll Energetic/Lazy (with drunk modifiers if applicable) or LEAVE FEAST.
15. The earl leads a toast to (d6) 1=The countess, 2=The guests, 3=The king, 4=Salis, 5=Dead knights, 6=God and The Goddess. Roll Temperate/Indulgent.
16. NOT FIRST ROUND You find yourself watching the court jester for a while as he entertains the crowd with slapstick routines and impersonations. Roll LUC. Failure means you find his routines rather dull and old fashioned and return to eating and drinking instead. Success and you laugh heartily with those around you, the group realisation of which grants 10 Glory. A Critical has you transfixed by his efforts, you laugh, and for a split second you feel a sense of synchronicity or deja vu. This year, at any time, you may re-roll any dice roll - or have any dice roll against you re-rolled. FIRST ROUND Father Brugyn is doing the rounds and asks if he can count on you to make a food donation to the poor. Choose (or roll) Generous/Selfish to pledge 10-60d (Roll Generous again and double it).
17. You overhear some ladies gossiping nearby and you can’t help but recognise the people they mention. Roll Intrigue and if successful gain +5 to all rolls when interacting with other guests for the rest of the evening.
18. FIRST ROUND ONLY - Several tots of cherry liquor are passed round which you enjoy with a passing lady as you look for your seat. You may make a toast to her before she leaves. Roll Courtesy. Success improves relations and grants 10 Glory.
AFTER FIRST ROUND - You spot a lady rising from her seat who is preparing to leave. You may be able to escort her to her chambers if you wish. Roll APP otherwise she dismisses you out of hand. If successful you may roll Courtesy (will improve relations) and then choose (Lustful 16+ roll) to escort her. Finally IF SHE IS CHRISTIAN roll your Courtesy vs her Chaste. If successful she compliments you on your charming manners and retires (improves relations), if not she still thanks you but its plain she thinks you were a little coarse. IF SHE IS PAGAN roll Courtesy vs her Chaste. If successful she invites you in. If you choose to join her (Lustful 16+ roll not to) LEAVE FEAST.
19. Special Event - Roll again, but this time the event takes place with a named character(s).
20. LUC ROLL. Success equals a Very Special Event otherwise;
You feel queasy. You can take a walk outside to settle yourself (thereby missing the next round) or Roll CON vs 15 POTENCY.
Very Special Event - (d6)
1= IF UNMARRIED the earl introduces you to a lovely young woman who he thinks would make an ideal wife. If you choose to accept and pass a Courtesy roll, you can roll on the wife table with a +5 modifier. IF MARRIED the countess or Lady Jenna approaches and says that she has heard your wife has good skill with (d6) 1-3=Fashion, 4-6=Industry and asks that she either make her a gown (Fashion) for next year or to create a (d6) 1-2=Tapestry, 3-4=Painting, 5-6=Tablecloth for use in the lord’s hall. This is a great honour and worth 50 Glory if successful. A fail grants nothing and a fumble is considered an insult.
2= A lady needs a champion to resolve a dispute. She looks your way and you have the chance to accept. Choose (or roll) Valourous/Cowardly. You will then fight another knight the next morning on the following terms (d6) 1-3=To first blood, 4-5= First knockdown, 6=To the death. This may give you a group relationship boost.
3= IF CHRISTIAN You receive a blessing from Father Dewi which is worth 10 Glory or 25 Glory if a successful Piety roll is made (doubled if this is performed by the Bishop) and a relationship boost with all Christians. IF PAGAN The Lady Elaine presents you with a charm of fertility. It will grant a +3 bonus to any childbirth rolls made this year.
4= You speak with a rich merchant who offers to sell you anything for half price up to a saving of £5.
5= You spend time talking with a rich knight who asks about your circumstances at home. If you are currently living at a living standard of Average or less he offers to donate enough food for you to live as a Rich knight for the following year. Choose (or roll) Temperate/Indulgent. If the over is declined the character gains an immediate increase (not check) to Temperate and a check to Modesty.
6=The earl offers you the chance to be the Hunt master and lead the lordly hunting party tomorrow morning if you can pass a Hunting check. Success nets 20 Glory straight away (Critical 40) and allows you to lead the entourage. A successful Loyalty (Lord) roll will allow you to take 1d6 other knights.

Table 2: ODD Events (D20)
1. A keg of mead is opened. Roll Temperate/Indulgent. If Indulgent, the character may become drunk.
2. Another knight offers you a game of Gwyddbwyll. His skill is 10+1d6. Glory is 10 for Partial Success, and 20 for Success. You can choose to play up to 3 rounds (thereby ensuring continued events) depending on what time the game started at the expense of other events.
3. A group of ladies (1D3+1) ask if you would play the harp/lute and tell a tale for their enjoyment. Roll Play (instrument) and Orate for 10 Glory each (20 if Critical). Roll APP for one of the woman to be a named lady.
4. A traditional game (apple bobbing, maypole dancing etc) is taking place which you may take part in vs. 1d6+6 other knights and ladies. You score 5 Glory for everyone you beat and gain a group status increase for coming first.
5. FIRST ROUND ONLY - You notice that another knight has arrived wearing the same clothes as you. This is an embarrassing faux pas and will affect your rolls accordingly (-5 from now on). You may retire and change but this takes one round.
SECOND ROUND ONWARDS - (d6) 1-3=You stain/tear your cloths negating any bonus they may have given you. You will need to buy a new set or suffer -3 APP from now on. 4-6=You damage a piece of jewellery (break the clasp, tarnish the stone etc) negating any bonus it may have given you. The repair cost is equal to half the value of the item. Those without jewellery suffer no effect.
6. A pretty courtesan looks seductively at you from the edge of the room. Roll Lustful/Chaste or go with her and LEAVE FEAST. This will also incur a cost (25d).
7. A named knight discusses (or boasts if he dislikes you) about (d6) 1=Combat tactics, 2=Battle tactics, 3=Siege warfare, 4=Lance charging/Jousting, 5=Horsemanship, 6=Grappling. Partial success gains 10 Glory, Success gains 20 (40 for Critical), and can alter your relationship with him.
8. You find yourself chatting to a young knight you’ve not met before. He seems to know you but you struggle when trying to recall his name. Roll Heraldry and earn 10 Glory for success plus a check to Courtesy. Roll APP and this is a named knight who you may seek to impress by mentioning something about his family history, while he discusses Heraldry with another.
9. The earl’s dogs take a liking to you and pester you all night. This doesn’t stop you enjoying yourself but it is a little off putting to others. Roll Folklore to get rid of them or be at -5 to all relevant skills for the rest of the evening.
10. Another knight is looking for his wife and asks if you have seen her recently. Roll Awareness and if successful you spy her dancing with another knight. You can then choose (or roll) to be Honest/Deceitful.
11. You find the feasting and drinking has left you feeling forgetful of your manners. You struggle to remember what course is eaten when, who drinks first during toasting, when it’s acceptable to flatulate, etc. Roll Courtesy now and before any further interactions or risk offending someone.
12. The last course or flagon of ale really didn’t go down well and your head spins for a moment. Roll CON vs 12 POT or you’re considered drunk or gross (flatulent, etc).
13. A named lady glances at you. You can make an APP roll and if successful a Flirt then Dance or Sing or Orate. The last four earning 10 Glory (20 for Critical) for success and improving standing.
14. Your wife feels unwell and requests that you both retire. Choose (or roll) Generous/Selfish depending on whether you go or stay. For unmarried knights a serving lady asks for assistance taking a drunken knight to his bed. Choose (or roll) Generous/Selfish and LEAVE FEAST.
15. The earl calls everyone to dance. You dance with a single partner and may earn Glory from a good performance (5 for Partial, 15 for Success and 20 for a Critical. Partner skill is 10+1D6). Roll APP to grab a woman of your choice.
16. Father Dewi passes by and reminds you that the Lord frowns upon those that overindulge, especially good Christian knights. Choose (or roll) Pious/Worldly to stay or LEAVE FEAST. Pagan knights are unaffected but may roll Worldly if they choose to.
17. You are talking with (1d3+1) other knights when a lady passes and praises one of you for looking so dashing. Roll an APP contest with the other knights (APP 10+1d6). The winner gains 20 Glory, a roll on Proud/Modest and a status boost if the woman in question is a named one.
18. A serving maid drops a platter of food or a nearby knight spills an ale keg. Make a DEX check to avoid being hit or suffer a -5 on further relevant rolls for the rest of the evening unless you retire for one round to clean up. If hit you can choose (or roll) Forgiving/Vengeful.
19. A nearby knight asks for help in composing a love poem for his sweetheart. Roll Compose. This is worth only 10 Glory - as the knight wishes to keep such assistance secret - but it will give a double bonus to any status changes if the knight is a known one.
20. LUC ROLL. Success equals a Very Special Event otherwise;
A tray of sweat pastry is passed round. Roll Temperate/Indulgent.
Very Special Event - (d6)
1= The earl or king (if present) request that you take centre stage and Orate, Sing, Play (instrument), or Compose (player choice) for the enjoyment of all as your ability has - rightly or wrongly - been mentioned to him. Success grants 25 Glory (50 for a Critical) and can positively affect all of those who witness the performance. Failure may have a negative impact and a fumble will insult the lord and may cause a loss of Honour. The request can be refused but doing so results in a loss of Loyalty (Lord).
2= A named lady is picked by the earl or king to lead the next formal dance. She in turn then requests you to join her. The two of you take to the floor and dance alone for a while, in full view, before everyone else joins. Even the earl takes to the floor after you on this occasion. Roll Dancing vs the lady. Partial success grants 20 Glory, Success 40 and a Critical 60. You also increase your standing with the lady by 1, 2 or 3 steps.
3=Depending on the time of year and the type of feast, you are selected as the lead character (King of the Bean, Cupid’s Cherub, etc). for the evening. This has varying results, see the table below to determine the exact outcome.
4= Challenge. Another knight accuses you of a misdemeanour and challenges you. The knight should be one that has reason to dislike you (APP roll) but it doesn’t have to be. If you accept the challenge it is resolved at daybreak in the castle grounds.
5=The lord offers you the chance to be the falcon master and lead the lordly party in the morning if you can pass a Falconry check. Success nets 20 Glory straight away (Critical 40) and allows you to lead the entourage. A successful Loyalty (Lord) roll will allow you to take 1d6 other knights.
6=A named Lady requests that she visit your manor during the year.

Named Knights
1-8=County knight
9-10=Sir Amig
11-12=Sir Anwar
13-14=Sir Geraint
15-16=Sir Hywel
17-18=Sir Garym
19=Sir Elat
20=Special (d6)
1-2=Sir Brastias
3=Duke UIfius
4=Earl Roderick
5=Prince Madoc
6=King Uther

Named Ladies
1=Deliah
2=Bethan
3=Ydelle
4=Lynette
5-8=County lady
9-10=Lady Gwiona
11-12=Lady Freya
13-14=Lady Elaine
15-16=Lady Adwen
17-18=Lady Indeg
19=Lady Jenna
20=Countess Ellen

Wow, that's pretty impressive! I may have to take a note of those tables and give them a shot when I get the chance! Cheers. :)

Thanks Sir Pramalot for those ideas.

Can I incorporate some of them into my take on running feasts ? (See below for where they may appear)

I too have expanded the feast tables, and probably have 100+ ideas now. Playing with a largish group at times (8+ players) I developed a system where I put them onto cards, and players had a hand of three, one of which was played on themselves, and one on somebody else, in an attempt to represent a limited degree of choice that I felt one has at a social gathering. Rolling on a table proved too slow with that number of players - hence the move to cards. I also had different groups of cards (i.e. different choices) for different grades of knights - broadly between those who had no land or only one manor or so, and those who actually had vassals and thus more land.

There's some narrative elements within my system as well.

They got an outing at Continuum on the Friday night andhave been passed out to someone for editing, as whilst I knew what they meant and my regular group knew how I worded stuff, people coming cold to them could have different interpretations. Once checked the idea is probably to publish them as PDFS on the Pendragon Eschille website, and then people can print them out, put them in card holders with spare CCG cards and use them. Had I known your ideas then we could have swapped ideas and playability over the beer and talk we had at Continuum...

I am also re-working the glory. Doing something when Arthur is present - even if he is at the top table and only glimpses from a distance - is different from doing it at your local castle. The former gets more glory - think of the difference in reputation and news between doing a cracking song down at your local pub to doing it on X Factor on TV!

Lastly, I think another refinement is to have different cards for different eras - for example one of my cards is "tournament talk" which is completely irrelevent in the early period when there are no tournaments.

Chris

On the basis of sharing (as Sir Pramalot did) then here's a few of my cards to inspire and show the sort of thing I've done...

I tend to value courtesy as much as appearance at times compared with Sir Pramalot, after reading in one of my books that the whole courtesy/etiquette thing developed to enable a socially diverse group of people to live in very close proximity (i.e. a castle) with limited stimulus in a sensible manner.

Who was that ? Discussion of who just walked past. Opposed Heraldry rolls vs 14 OR opposed recognise rolls vs 14. If you win, gain 3 glory.

Famous Knight A famous knight (glory 6K+) has had too much to drink and needs helps. Choice:
Courtesy - Help knight to bed. Miss next turn, receive 5 glory (15 for critical) and roll vs generous and forgiving.

Flirting - ignore Knight but appeal to female member of his family. Success (or critical) = 3 glory. Next turn may take another card as you talk with her when she returns.

Orate - tell all and sundry, whilst summoning the Stewards. Success = 5 glory, Critical = 15 glory. Roll against vengeful.

This is based upon a scene from the Korda version of The Four Feathers
Refight Badon with the Fruit Opposed battle rolls vs 14. Opposed Proud or modest rolls (player choice) vs 14.

If you succeed at both gain 10 glory.

If you were actually at Badon (either side) gain a further 10 glory regardless of outcome of rolls.

Lost Child Lost Child bursts into tears near you. Person to right of you chooses group. Roll Flirt or Romance to stop it crying. Then roll courtesy to find its parents. Whilst child is crying you do not get any other card.

Fire Stray sparks from the fireplace set someones clothes alight. DEX roll needed to put them out. They are:
1-3 Female/4-6 Male
1-2 Lower class than you / 3-4 your class / 5-6 higher class

Missing ear ring or other jewellry Something lost and on the floor. Roll awareness to find it. Roll Courtesy to hand it back with aplomb. Gain 5 glory. Roll flirt if you feel so inclined to.

Lord's dog bites and rips your clothing Your courtesy, dance, orate and sing skills are now at -5. To repair the damage you need a lady (or yourself) to succeed at an industry skill roll. How you achieve this is up to you. (Keep this card face up alongside you until discarded).

Lord's dog snatches part of your dinner Roll against courtesy. Success = 3 glory, critical = 3 glory and get another card. Fumble means it takes another part of your dinner, and you lose all your current cards and spend next turn sorting out more food (i.e. miss a turn).

Chris

Thanks Sir Pramalot for those ideas.

Can I incorporate some of them into my take on running feasts ? (See below for where they may appear)


Absolutely. I've grabbed many good ideas from other people on this forum.

100+ ideas! That's fantastic. Reading through the sample you have posted you've got some great stuff there. Would you care to share the whole list? By all means PM me if it's too lengthy to post.

I missed Friday night at Continuum, only getting there Saturday morning so I didn't get the chance to see your card system in action. I did play in the battle though and I thought the unit cards used there were an excellent idea. Would you consider sharing those for download? And where can I find the Eschille website?

RE my use of APP. You're right I am pushing it into realms beyond those suggested in the rulebook. I'm using it as a measure of sociability, charm and personal magnetism, rather than just a measure of raw good looks. This is intentional. I do use a LUCK stat in my game which would arguably fit just as well but I wanted to give APP more appeal, having spent far too long playing AD&D and numerous other games where it was always the forgotten stat. It was quite satisfying recently to have one of my players punching the air upon rolling a 17 for his APP and talking about how he was going to be the centre of attention come feast time.

Thanks Sir Pramalot for those ideas.

Can I incorporate some of them into my take on running feasts ? (See below for where they may appear)


Absolutely. I've grabbed many good ideas from other people on this forum.

100+ ideas! That's fantastic. Reading through the sample you have posted you've got some great stuff there. Would you care to share the whole list? By all means PM me if it's too lengthy to post.

I missed Friday night at Continuum, only getting there Saturday morning so I didn't get the chance to see your card system in action. I did play in the battle though and I thought the unit cards used there were an excellent idea. Would you consider sharing those for download? And where can I find the Eschille website?

RE my use of APP. You're right I am pushing it into realms beyond those suggested in the rulebook. I'm using it as a measure of sociability, charm and personal magnetism, rather than just a measure of raw good looks. This is intentional. I do use a LUCK stat in my game which would arguably fit just as well but I wanted to give APP more appeal, having spent far too long playing AD&D and numerous other games where it was always the forgotten stat. It was quite satisfying recently to have one of my players punching the air upon rolling a 17 for his APP and talking about how he was going to be the centre of attention come feast time.


Sorry for the delay in reply - i'm moving from old (dying PC) to new (shiny MAC).

a) 100+ ideas - well, they have been developed over two groups (spread apart in time a little) which realistically means around 6 years of playing once a week. From your examples though sounds like you go to the same sort of parties that I do. Me thinks a mutual visit to the Medieval galleries at the V&A is needed followed by "research' at my favourite Margarita bar in London. :-) The same research at a different establishment (but now on the overseas tourist trail unfortunately it would seem) caused us to realise that it is possible to roll 5 and 8 on female Appearance when you are taking the best 3 from 4 six sided dice. The same post museum visiting refreshment produced the "soul of the party" card from seeing a reasonably attractive Colleen out with what we presumed were her work colleagues. As mentioned, Mark should be reading through the reading on my cards to tidy up the wording and I'll chase him up. I'll then probably email you pdfs in advance of stuff going onto a web site. I got players to write a card each for me at certain points as well which expanded things.

b) APP - I like APP as an instant moniker. Fashion a little too. Looks and image can go a long way, especially if combined with confidence. To give a contemporary example, walk into a central London bar and see if you fail to spot the 25-35 blonde (real or fake) woman in non chainstore clothing.... Looks and image to my mind though are what people mostly notice within 30 seconds of walking into a room: the exception being that if I see the double headed displayed eagle of the Orkney clan on a surcoat them I'm paying attention and likewise for a number of other prominient heraldic devices. <<It was quite satisfying recently to have one of my players punching the air upon rolling a 17 for his APP>> - absolutely! I had players doing high fives on Friday evening at Continuum, and to me that is what Pendragon is about - i.e. having fun playing the game, whether it be in a monster killing environment or social environment.

c) Unit Cards for battle. Something I produced for Continuum and which for copyright reasons I wouldn't want to generally publish. I hadn't trialled them before Continuum and thus had no idea if they would improve things or not. Like everything we learn a bit as we go. I have some other ideas for a source of images that should be mine to do with as I wish, but that will require a bit of time.

d) Eschille website - in development as they say. As Damon has posted elsewhere, with six weeks to go to Continuum the Eschille didn't exist so we're hitting the ground running as they say. My move of platform from PC to MAC will not have helped, but watch this space as they say. The next outing for some Eschille Pendragon games should be Indiecon at Christchurch in November.. Won't be me for various reasons - I may be at Conception in January2011 (but January 2011 is some way off at the moment).

Chris

Sir Pramalot, what do you mean by LUC Roll ????

LUC=Luck

An extra attribute that I use in my campaign alongside STR, DEX, SIZ etc. I use it as a catch all roll when others don't quite fit. eg Here comes a dragon and its gonna eat (everyone rolls LUC) the guy that just rolled the lowest. Or - as happened in my last session - a PK was awoken in the night by an intruder and he chased after them in his bed clothes. Reaching the battlements the intruder turned and came at the knight, who said "I pull out my dagger", "DM: hmm did you bring it? Roll LUC and you grabbed it on the way out, fail and you forgot it." Little things like that.

Just substitute whatever roll seems right to you instead.

a) 100+ ideas - well, they have been developed over two groups (spread apart in time a little) which realistically means around 6 years of playing once a week. From your examples though sounds like you go to the same sort of parties that I do. Me thinks a mutual visit to the Medieval galleries at the V&A is needed followed by "research' at my favourite Margarita bar in London. :-) The same research at a different establishment (but now on the overseas tourist trail unfortunately it would seem) caused us to realise that it is possible to roll 5 and 8 on female Appearance when you are taking the best 3 from 4 six sided dice. The same post museum visiting refreshment produced the "soul of the party" card from seeing a reasonably attractive Colleen out with what we presumed were her work colleagues. As mentioned, Mark should be reading through the reading on my cards to tidy up the wording and I'll chase him up. I'll then probably email you pdfs in advance of stuff going onto a web site. I got players to write a card each for me at certain points as well which expanded things.


I'd really appreciate the chance to read through what you come up with. I like the idea of cards and I've been thinking about using them instead of dice rolls and tables. The randomness is maintained and it makes the players more involved. However, just how far should one go in making a "game" out of a role playing event, in this case a feast. I've been turning this over in my mind for a while now. Using cards and tables and dice rolls is great for coercing interaction from players who would normally do sod all at court time, but I'm wary of railroading and taking away player choice.

In the past, I've had some good court sessions which have just occurred on the fly. One of my PCs is quite a dandy; he loves the social interaction that court allows, and I know he'll always interact with other NPCs with little or no prodding. The others however, are often just passengers or worse, observers. They will sit there and when I ask if they want to do anything will just shrug, say no and wait for the adventure to start. The thing with court is that it needs player willpower to work. As I don't always have that, I thought that random events, using APP as the main mechanic, would help generate situations for my quieter PCs to contend with. Now it does that, but there's always a downside. The approach is somewhat abstract. If you create a set of "rules" about how court is resolved then those rules have to be applied universally. You can't just march up to a courtly lady if the dice or cards don't allow it at that point, unless you build such a free will mechanism into the rules themselves.

This is not a criticism of the card approach btw just an issue I'm grappling with in my head. I've been brewing up loads of ideas but after a while I wondered if I was going too far. As an extreme example, imagine if when court time came along you pulled out a boxed game (say Greg Stafford's "Courtly Capers") with a board, dice, little miniatures etc and played *that* before switching back to normal KAP afterwards. Is that really the point? Is it role playing? I'm sure you get the picture.



b) APP - I like APP as an instant moniker. Fashion a little too. Looks and image can go a long way, especially if combined with confidence. To give a contemporary example, walk into a central London bar and see if you fail to spot the 25-35 blonde (real or fake) woman in non chainstore clothing.... Looks and image to my mind though are what people mostly notice within 30 seconds of walking into a room: the exception being that if I see the double headed displayed eagle of the Orkney clan on a surcoat them I'm paying attention and likewise for a number of other prominient heraldic devices. <<It was quite satisfying recently to have one of my players punching the air upon rolling a 17 for his APP>> - absolutely! I had players doing high fives on Friday evening at Continuum, and to me that is what Pendragon is about - i.e. having fun playing the game, whether it be in a monster killing environment or social environment.


I'm totally sold on using APP as more than just mere looks. Social magnetism, charisma, even a supernatural measure of your ability to be the one that everything happens to; the "it" man in the crowd.



c) Unit Cards for battle. Something I produced for Continuum and which for copyright reasons I wouldn't want to generally publish. I hadn't trialled them before Continuum and thus had no idea if they would improve things or not. Like everything we learn a bit as we go. I have some other ideas for a source of images that should be mine to do with as I wish, but that will require a bit of time.


They were a great visual device. I may have to try and find something similar - The Morgan Bible for eg.

I'd really appreciate the chance to read through what you come up with. I like the idea of cards and I've been thinking about using them instead of dice rolls and tables. The randomness is maintained and it makes the players more involved. However, just how far should one go in making a "game" out of a role playing event, in this case a feast. I've been turning this over in my mind for a while now. Using cards and tables and dice rolls is great for coercing interaction from players who would normally do sod all at court time, but I'm wary of railroading and taking away player choice.
Is it role playing? I'm sure you get the picture.


I've snipped your reply Sir Pramalot because I was exceeding maximum message length...

[Sir Pramalot – my profile won’t let me look at your profile. So I can’t send you a private message to ask for your email address so I can send you pdfs of the cards – as is (the proof reading is taking a little more time). Can you see if you can see if you can see my profile and send me a private message including your email?]

I couldn’t agree more with the issues that you raise. In the initial rules there were three archtypes for characters – one of whom was the Courtier. To my mind, everything (including dice and stats) is a tool towards having an enjoyable evenings entertainment and should be dispensed with if needs be. The dichtomy is one of coping with 6 players around a table wanting to roleplay out a feast vs the time and sanity argument of “pure” role-playing without limitations caused by cards etc. Having had a think about things over the last couple of days then my starting point was always a modification of the roll on a table and see what the result is, which is the original presentation of feasts. It’s a bit like saying, here is the internal combustion engine, how can we make it better, rather than the process of a blank sheet that results in the electric engine. Aside from a development of something like Atlas games’ “Once upon a time” (with cards like beer, love, dress, jewelry) then I don’t have a brainwave on how to approach things differently at the moment.

Initially there weren’t many Court based scenarios, and the table in Knights Adventurous (repeated Tales of Mystic Tournaments at least) appeared which gave ten (quick) different court things to resolve based around a D20 roll. Other than that, the Courtier seemed to have little or no say in what happened. The first cards were borne out of the first session using the table when rolling a d20, referring to it, and then resolving the issue, just proved too slow with 6-8 players gathered around the table. I also felt it limiting in the range of options. I’ll describe how what I have evolved since it touches on points you raise, and I think is also useful for GM’s considering court scenarios.

Role-playing out a whole feast with 6-8 players though was a non-starter. Time just didn’t allow for that level of interaction, and as you say there are some players who just sit there, expecting all the role-playing to be served up on a plate to them, whilst others will interact with their GM for a positive all round evening. On the other hand I generally dislike ‘storytelling’ RPG’s, either because I’m hearing a wannabee author play out his novel whilst we have to listen to it with little or no chance to influence it or alter the plot in any way (a whole evening with no character choice or decision making, is to me, not a role-playing session)

The MK 1 version was therefore taking a pack of 6x4 index cards and keeping the “adventures” roughly in line with the original d20. Thus, when a roll of 3-6 produced the serving girl who flirts with you, then twenty out of 100 cards had the same effect. The system then was take a card, pass the pack on, and resolve it. This speeded up resolution, but lacked variety.

At the same time we were playing a bit of Atlas’ Games “Once upon a Time” which is a storytelling game. The aim is to get rid of all of your cards which may have nouns or more complex ideas on them – so I may draw “Sword, Doppelganger, sleepily/sleeping, cruel”. The aim being to tell a story and when you are the storyteller and use a word featuring on of your cards then you can discard it. So, I start off with “In the Sleeping (discard card) wood, with no sounds around the Sword was in the Stone…”. Another player has stone as a card and plays it, not only to discard it but also to take over telling the tale. There are mechanisms for getting more cards but I should have described the basic concept. Bizarrely, whilst I don’t like pure storytelling RPGS I enjoy Once Upon a Time. I think it is a time thing – Once upon a Time is 30 minutes of fun, and the narrative changes, compared with 4 hours of tedious listening to the wannabee author.

To me there were still lots of issues to address, to have the courtier as a valid archetype:
1) Lack of options
2) Lack of player choice and free will
3) Lack of player interaction
4) Lack of NPC interaction and direction
All within the constraints of 6-8 players, 1GM and the need to keep the story moving and individual downtime (i.e. when they are not doing something or thinking about the game) to a minimum.

Which brings me to pretty much to what I have now which is probably version 5 or 6 with a few dead ends explored on the way. There was also a move to CCG card sleeves using old CCG cards as a back to a paper front to enable shuffling and ease of use.

The system is that people have three cards and play one on themselves, one on somebody else and keep one over to the next round and refill. As GM I have a card or two for each player per round to play or not as I see fit. So, to answer the points raised above:

1) Variety – With say 200 cards in play, then I may have forty cards that revolve around serving girls. Most of these will be broadly the same (the range of appearance may differ, as may the cultural background) as the Knights adventurous card – after all, serving girls are there to be flirted with, but ten to fifteen of them will be different – the serving girl tips food over you, flirt with the serving girl and get a sip of the brandy destined for the top table etc... Likewise with 200 cards then putting in an event –the apple bobbing for example – that should occur much, much less frequently is possible with it being one card out of 200. (The same result would occur with a roll on one table being followed by a roll on a second table).

2) With three cards and choosing which card to resolve on themselves then players have an element of choice in which direction things are going. It’s not perfect free will and doesn’t have the freedom of pure role-playing, but to me is a compromise necessitated by the numbers of people at the table. I don’t specify ‘who’ is involved, only ‘what’ is involved, thus the player imagination is to come up with the background that gets them their RPG advantage.

This also covered some of item 4 – NPC interaction. The ‘brake” on this if you like is that I envisage the seating arrangements and society working such that like mingle with like – thus any NPC that you involve is from your own social grouping. With three divisions and decks – Top Table, Nobles (generally those with land or subordinates) and Knights (those without land or subordinates). We started off with 3rd edition when Knights errant and younger sons were common starting knights and land had to be earned through game play.

Playing card on somebody else answered item 3), whilst the keeping a card back allowed for some choice in what happened to you. Please also read down for what I describe as my “special/storytelling cards”

3) The lack of player interaction was solved by the playing of a card on another player – your choice – although I also allowed this on an NPC. So, “Chance to Dance” played on your choice of the NPC Lady Morwenna (providing she is within your social class) means that she asks you for a dance. This is putting limited storytelling elements into the hands of players, for them to exploit as they see fit. There is still no Guinevere dances with me’ because she is sitting at the top table – using the top table deck – and outside your social circle. (There are cards that let you move up and down decks), whereas if you are sat at the Top Table – with the select few, then it is entirely reasonable that you dance with Guinevere. Of course, a following player may play the same card but decide that it is Lady Rhianna – the archrival of Lady Morwenna who decides to ask you to dance (and thus a plot develops).

4) By having a hand of cards myself – to play as and when I wished to direct NPC’s (by interrupting play)– kept me involved in the game, allowed me to exploit decisions or criticals/fumbles etc made by players without people feeling that they were being unfairly penalized or rewarded. It also kept some cards out of play from players, keeping games uncertain, as I could choose to play them or not. Sometimes, depending upon the Scenario I would play some of the NPC’s as if they were fully-fledged players – they got a hand of three cards and played them as they wished.

We then come to my ‘special/storytelling’ cards. I think there’s only one of each in each deck, although there might be a couple of Right Time, Right Place and upgrades.

Right Place/Right Time – This card can be played to produce a +1/-1 modifier to your dice roll, AFTER the dice has been rolled. This modifier can be applied to skills, passions, traits…. This increases the chance of criticals – and to me an in game critical is something to be talked about and have a bit of role-playing around…

The Joker – Shuffle all cards and discards back into the deck. Chance for you to choose any of your skills to roll against.

Gold Star – immediate. Take the top 10 cards and take card of your choice to replace this one. This card is then removed from play for the rest of the evening. Cards not taken go into the discard pile.

Ace of Spades. Must be played on someone else. Player has a physical contest or challenge. Player placing card outlines events and circumstances.

Ace of Clubs. Must be played on someone else. Player has a bought of bad luck or unfortunate circumstance. Player describes circumstance and bad luck to GM.

Ace of Hearts. Must be played on someone else. Player has a romantic or emotional (e.g. play, sing) special bonus and circumstance. Player who plays the card describes circumstance and bonus to GM.

Ace of Diamonds. Must be played on someone else. Player has intellectual or social (e.g. game, courtesy) special bonus and circumstance. Player who plays the card describes the circumstance and bonus to GM.

The Aces (inspired in part by the card driven resolution system in Castle Falkenstein which uses cards rather than dice) were my attempt to bring in sessions of much purer role-playing to a feast, whilst also opening it up to things I hadn’t thought about. Coming from a traditional D&D style of GMing, then handing over your game to the players was a brave move at the time (and this is 1995-ish) but I think by limiting it to players giving other players circumstances then it stopped some of the potential for abuse that could happen if a player has the ability to take over the game for their own advantage. What I realized my players started to do was actually hoard the aces and save them towards the end of the evening – as I would normally say, this is a five round feast and sometimes describe the meals etc. What one would see then is a flurry of them appearing together to exploit things e.g.

Tom plays the Ace of Hearts on Andy’s character, Sir Ulfius so that he gets to have a quiet, smoochy, end of evening dance with the Lady Morwenna. The NPC Sir Brastias has been played all evening as his love rival. Andy plays the Ace of Spades on Sir Brastias (remember that Andy cannot play the card on himself, but I would allow it on an NPC) so that he trips/slips whilst attempting to muscle in, and cannot dance now for the rest of the evening. This is followed by Richard who plays the Ace of Diamonds on Sir Ulfius to allow him to jointly (with Lady Morwenna) help Sir Brastias back to his bench and fetch him a drink before returning to the dance floor with Lady Morwenna, whom he has hopefully (rolls notwithstanding) impressed with his generosity and courtesy….

There is one other card with major storytelling implications, if the players can think about it:

Event of the Day. Talk about today’s event e.g. lance/tourney on jousting day, hunting on rest day, battle etc on melee day. If played on self, GM chooses skill. If played on other, you choose skill/trait explaining justification. Glory etc, depends upon part played that day.

<<<<The others however, are often just passengers or worse, observers. They will sit there and when I ask if they want to do anything will just shrug, say no and wait for the adventure to start……. >>> This point that you raise is again one reason why I had the cards (or tables). It was a way of prodding them into doing things and recognize that there was a ‘game world’ with NPC’s that they were part of.

Whether it is tables and dice, or cards, to me they are tools to help along a role-playing session. I like fumbles and criticals because often sideplots or being ‘famous for 15 minutes’ can be developed from them. I wouldn’t want to see them become a separate game, nor the basic rationale changed of explaining “what” happens, but not who happens. To the player who just waits for the plot to happen, then dancing with a faceless NPC (Or perhaps more accurately the chance for a skill roll and glory) may be all that they want, or are comfortable with. Sometimes there may be a lack of understanding of the social milieu (which is one reason I have a few books like the Dorling Kindersley Medieval life book in my gaming bag, so a player new to the medieval world has some questions answered).

The other side of the coin is that tables or cards are a straightjacket on what should be a role-playing game. I know of one GM who disliked them intensely and argued that they should be able to do whatever they wished in a feast setting as a player. If they wanted to be able to dance with Guinevere when they are a lowly new Knight then they should be able to try and do so.

The issues that I would then want to see are how, as a GM he handles 6 people saying ‘that’s a good idea, I want to do it as well’ as those who are “the passengers” see a chance for glory. To say that only the first one can try because they thought of it seems arbitrary, and wrong. To say that they can all try means Guinevere ends up as a rag doll by the end of the evening – after all, if the PC’s want to do it, then so should the NPC’s. If you say that only the one who thought it can try, then the others may say “I do the same with Morgan Le Fey” or “I do the same with the Earl of Salisbury’s wife” as they jump on the bandwagon.

At the moment I don’t have a solution for the total free will sort of game, in part because I don’t agree with it. Based upon my experience of company functions then dancing with the ex supermodel wife of the managing director – even if I’m at the same dinner along with 300 other men and their partners – is not something that is going to happen in the normal course of events. It’s not impossible but is likely to be as the result of chance rather than whatever planning and scheming I can do, unless I’m sat at the top table with her, and thus within her social circle rather than am outside of it.

My other concerns are that role-playing out each feast is going to have a negative time consequence – the passengers do nothing, the courtier exploits it and potentially starts to ‘hog’ the session. Throw a couple of people who want to interact as courtiers in RPG fashion and the time consequences can get horrendous. Secondly, I just don’t have the mental energy to play out feasts without them becoming clichéd. I’d got into a cycle where each game year had two or more sessions devoted to it with my gaming group. Pentecost Tournament was one – one player once reached the finals (and lost) in the jousting, but thereafter wanted to go to each Pentecost Tournament; as a result of a card and a critical (wife) and fumble (Gawaine) there was always an apple bobbing competition as well with Gawaine and the attractive wife of a player as a minimum. The second would be a more traditional adventure or war or battle. Occasionally there would be a third session either for more battles, or adventure spin off. Running once per week, then that’s potentially looking at hosting the Pentecost tournament once every five or six weeks of real time and keeping it fresh and exciting for players. I like tables and cards because of the oddities that it can throw up – and thus which help keep it fresh. I like putting some control into the hands of players because it makes my job easier as a GM, and again what they come up with can keep it fresh, and if nothing else shows where they would like the game to go.

This has turned into a long post – but there are some ideas for people who are running feasts and issues to consider. As I said at the start, private message me and I’ll send you pdfs as is and we can have a longer discussion of the why’s and wherefore’s of running feasts. I have some other ideas and refinements to the concept of tables/cards – including such things as different ideas for different times. I was watching Excalibur (Boorman) over the weekend, and there is a different feel and atmosphere to the victory feast when Uther first sees Ygraine to the feast after Arthur has raised the siege of Leodegrance’s castle and is dancing and flirting with Guinevere.

Chris

Chris - sorry about the delay. Thanks for the update. Just about to PM you.

Question about effective APP for Sir Pramalot:

In addition to the modifiers for fashion/jewelry, would you add Glory/1000 to it?

Regards
Luke

Question about effective APP for Sir Pramalot:

In addition to the modifiers for fashion/jewelry, would you add Glory/1000 to it?

Regards
Luke


Really, yes you should. But... I'm not currently doing that. Purely because the number of modifiers start to add up to levels which are too high.

I've streamlined my system after a play through during my last gaming session and having swapped a number of ideas with Avalon Lad. Thanks to him, I'm now using cards instead of dice and tables, and I've reduced everything to a simple opposed APP roll with the feast having a liveliness level - like battle intensity - which you work against. Unlike Avalon Lad, my setup is not a card game in its own right, more an extension of the mechanics already present in the game. I just like using the cards as it brings me - as GM - into the game more and allows me to focus on the narrative. That's the intention at least.

Really, yes you should. But... I'm not currently doing that. Purely because the number of modifiers start to add up to levels which are too high.

Fair enough. Thanks for sharing the write-up.

Regards
Luke

Hi,
I tested the cards of Sir Pramalot, before reading his last reply, so my knights got to add their glory/1000..
It was not a complete success. I had three players, first fumbled his appearance on round 1, and so sat bored the entire time (with him being the lowest glory knight, I just 'fudged' and claimed he was now feasting with the other low glory knights, in order to get him involved). The other two had around 1000 glory (+10), superlative rich (+2), one with 8 App, other 20 App, they quickly got into a 100% success and 90% crit rate... the 8 app knight was just having fun seeing which events he could pull, while the 20 app knight of course went for all the named characters present, hence ignoring the events cards.
I didnt get the feeling it 'added' much to the play-enjoyment. Perhaps it's just my 'extreme' players. Maybe it was the evening.
Will have to test again.

fg,
Thijs

Hi,
I tested the cards of Sir Pramalot, before reading his last reply, so my knights got to add their glory/1000..
It was not a complete success. I had three players, first fumbled his appearance on round 1, and so sat bored the entire time (with him being the lowest glory knight, I just 'fudged' and claimed he was now feasting with the other low glory knights, in order to get him involved). The other two had around 1000 glory (+10), superlative rich (+2), one with 8 App, other 20 App, they quickly got into a 100% success and 90% crit rate... the 8 app knight was just having fun seeing which events he could pull, while the 20 app knight of course went for all the named characters present, hence ignoring the events cards.
I didnt get the feeling it 'added' much to the play-enjoyment. Perhaps it's just my 'extreme' players. Maybe it was the evening.
Will have to test again.

fg,
Thijs


Yes it is very much in the play test phase - and you've played it before me! :)
I wouldn't add the Glory bonus in, it's too much. Leave that purely to affect skills when you get the chance to use them not the chance itself. I'm now also limiting APP bonuses for things like clothes & Jewelly to be no more than half the player's base APP score. No matter how good your bling, if you look like a dog it can only help so much. Also in your example, the player who fumbled would only be out for 1 round, not the entire feast. All results are on a round by round basis.

Edit - No you're right about the Fumble. Thanks for the feedback. I'll see how it pans out with my group and then no doubt make some changes.

Hmm I will not be able to convince my players that having 10000 glory does not affect your chances of being noticed during a feast (while a shiny outfit of 2L does).

fg,
Thijs

I think this is a quirk with the RAW. As they stand, APP is affected by things such as clothes and jewellery but not by Glory. As I'm using APP as the dominant stat for such interactions I'm also blindsiding the Glory effect. Not perfect I agree.

Maybe averaging APP with (Glory/1000 might do the trick.

Just an update here after 1 play test session and one real session.

I dropped the whole APP vs APP mechanic to determine what you could do on each round as my player's fond it too cumbersome and restrictive. Instead I just stated the approx size of the feast (ie how many round it would last) and asked my PKs what they intended to do each round, if anything. Whether they did something or not I flipped over a card and gave them the event it presented as an option. They could either ignore it (Courtesy roll to decline politely, assuming the relevant Trait did not force their involvement) or take part in it. Then, if they were able to speak to a lady (which is what most of my PKs try to do) they would have to pass an opposed APP vs APP to be the centre of her attention. For ease, I assume high APP ladies will be more likely to have other knights vying for her attention and the APP vs APP simulates this. If you fail, it's because another knight is more engaging at that point in time. If you pass the APP roll you can then try to impress with a courtly skill. This continues next round with another roll to see if you maintain her attention.

It worked and my players enjoyed it. Those that usually need no encouragement to do something had random events to consider, which made the outcome more varied, and those that usually do nothing had the same, which drew them into the game more.

Are these cards available anywhere?

I've just finished formatting them. I've included links for two sets of cards I use.

Feast Cards - Approx 140 cards of different events. Note As I use these cards instead of dice rolling and table scanning some events appear more frequently to improve their chance of occurring. Also note, now that I have physically created them 140+ cards is quite sizable, so cutting the deck and using seperate decks per round may be more feasible. My thanks to Chris Payne (Avalon Lad) and Thijs Krijger (Dr. J.M. "Thijs" Krijger) for their ideas, suggestions, help and feedback. Credit included on my website.

Link HERE (http://kap5.smugmug.com/Other/Cards/14911878_eusmb#1113207394_PAttX)

Battle Cards - I made these cards to use instead of the table from the Book of Armies and they have proved very very popular. They give a face to the enemy and increase the drama, at least that's what I've found. Clear credit for the idea of using cards goes to the Pendragon Eschille.

Link HERE (http://kap5.smugmug.com/Other/Cards/14911878_eusmb#1113207411_ZPAxU)

Oh, man I love how those cards look.
The battle cards some to have been saved in a reduced resolution, is that intentional?
The feast cards download from mediafire keeps 'processing download request' (even on different browsers), though.

PS: Thanks for the mention, you've deserved your modest check (beside your 'Making cool Pendragon stuff' check of course).

fg,
Thijs

I get the same message on the feast cards as well....

So yet to see what they look like.... :-(

Chris

hmmm odd it was fine for me. Anyway, I've moved them from mediafire to Adrive and they seem to be working for me. Adrive has less annoying ads but the link only remains active for 1 month.

Thijs - The images are saved uncompressed. Any compression artifacts are present in the original image, and yes there are some but sadly there's nothing I can do about it.

Now downloading fine. Thanks.

Chris

Just downloaded these - what a great piece of work!
Thanks for sharing them!

Just downloaded these - what a great piece of work!
Thanks for sharing them!


Thanks. I do this stuff for my campaign but share it gladly. Of course, it was you and the rest of the Eschille that gave me the idea in the first place.

I'm working on some new and reworked cards for my next battle which I'll also upload once done.

I second those thanks- great stuff.

I look forward to downloading these later and having a look. Feasts is something I want to inject more life into in my campaign.

ADrive says:

"The file you are trying to access is no longer available publicly.

Please contact the user who has shared this file with you."

:(

ADrive says:

"The file you are trying to access is no longer available publicly.

Please contact the user who has shared this file with you."

:(


Sadly, free ADrive accounts only keep shared links active for 1 month, so for the next month these links will be active.

Feast Cards - Link HERE (http://kap5.smugmug.com/Other/Cards/14911878_eusmb#1113207394_PAttX)

Battle Cards - Link HERE (http://kap5.smugmug.com/Other/Cards/14911878_eusmb#1113207411_ZPAxU)

If you're reading this after that date just PM me and I'll mail you the files direct.

- Andy

You could always store them at mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/), which keeps files active indefinitely.
Unless you want them to expire, of course - I can see that being a benefit for some things.