My players have decided they want a Loyalty (My Group) passion. Per Greg's writeup, one of the ways to determine the starting value is to calculate it using the following modifiers:


+6 You are kinsmen
+3. You are from the same county
+3 You are from the same kingdom
+1d6 You are the same culture
+1 per event The group’s members have been very generous to you
+10 Your life was saved by them.
+1 per event. You have been on a quest or adventure together.
-1 You were cheated somehow by someone in the group
-5 Your family has some grudge against someone in the group
-10 Your liege Lord forbad this

Some of these - particularly the bolded item - could occur pretty frequently during play after the initial value is determined. Does it make sense for this passion to go up every year? That seems a little too good. On the other hand, if you say these are just for determining starting values and don't have an impact once the passion is created, then the best way to get a high passion score is to wait longer to create it. That seems backwards.

Maybe a check every year they adventure together? Do other people use this passion, and how to you have it develop once in play?

I thought those modifiers only applied when the Loyalty was first generated. So the players have two choices:

1. Declare a Passion early on and hope that it helps them in early adventures and they will get checks to it.

Or

2. Wait until they have a half a dozen adventures under their belts, and they are truly a team. They will start up with a pretty high Group Passion, then.

I agree with Morien's answer.

But I wanted to say this seems like power-gaming, and I would not like it in one of my games.

You should easily be able to raise this passion to 20 and then invoke it over and over again, since situations where you need to show your loyalty to "your group" will be all over the place if you always adventure together.

We have the Camaraderie passion in our game. Sure it is munchkiny, but I play hardball with them. If your man dies: *BOOM* aging roll for all his comrades. If your man lets another comrade down: *BOOM*. Unsolvable conflicts between passions (Loyalty Lord vs Camaraderie is quite common): *BOOM* ... You get the picture...

// M

Like Noir points out, the Passion comes with some baggage.

First of all, I don't allow invoking it simply during a normal fight. Only when a comrade is down and in clear danger, the passion is activated if the players wish. In our penultimate session (old campaign), one of the players invoked group loyalty, rolled a fumble and went mad. Given that the chance of going mad is 5%, that means that a group of 4 PKs, you can expect one madness per 5 situations. They will soon learn not to invoke it unless they really need it.

Noir also lists potential conflicts with the other passions, which is always fun. Also, did your comrade have a poor harvest? Group Loyalty 16+? Why, wouldn't you share from your own? (Granted, I would give a Generous check for this, too.)

Friend in trouble with X? Surely you will help!

I only wish to say that, normally in the rules...



First of all, I don't allow invoking it simply during a normal fight. Only when a comrade is down and in clear danger, the passion is activated if the players wish.


...and if it is extraordinary (16 or more) whenever the Gamemaster decides is appropriate.

Passions are always something of a double edged sword, too.
Even if you have a 20 or better and don't have to worrying about the consequences for failure, the passion might force a character to act when he would rather not, or come into conflict with another passion.

My players have been reluctant to take a Loyalty (Group) passion, becuase it could easily come into conflict with thier Loyalty (Lord) passion on the batlefield, or force the PKS to try and rescue someone when they should by withdrawing instead.

...and if it is extraordinary (16 or more) whenever the Gamemaster decides is appropriate.



Of course, although I don't usually force players to roll for inspiration... I use it more like 'Your friend is down, and since you have Loyalty (Group) 16+, you rush to aid him, letting the Black Knight of Crooked Tower escape.' Of course, the player might wish to roll the Passion and see if he fails, but if he chooses to stay with teh Black Knight and leave his friend to be mobbed by foot soldiers, his Passion would drop by one right there and then.

This does beg a question though... Do you (mainly Greg, but others are welcome to pipe in) usually force inspiration rolls in situations that would allow them, if a player knight has Passion 16+?

In the above example, would you make the PK to go to help the downed friend, or would you make him roll for Inspiration AND go to help the downed friend (or not, if he fails)? Hence risking madness/failure with its -5?

...and if it is extraordinary (16 or more) whenever the Gamemaster decides is appropriate.

This does beg a question though... Do you (mainly Greg, but others are welcome to pipe in) usually force inspiration rolls in situations that would allow them, if a player knight has Passion 16+?

In the above example, would you make the PK to go to help the downed friend, or would you make him roll for Inspiration AND go to help the downed friend (or not, if he fails)? Hence risking madness/failure with its -5?


I probably would not have to say anything.
In our game, if a fellow Candlebee is down, there is no question. The players just do it, not me.
They all get checks for it, for their action, and later can attempt Inspiration if they wish.

If there is a conflict of interests I let their dice decide if necessary. Whatever happens, there are always consequences.