Ok, let's come together for the beginning of round four, handle the army commander rolls here and then separate out as necessary.

As always, this Round’s Army Intensity = Last Round’s Final Army Intensity + 3d6-10 Battle Events.
Sir Meliaunce's Unit achieved a -2 Intensity through a Unit Triumph, moving forward two zones into Zone 7.
Sir Madog's Unit didn't fair too well, with a Unit Loss with the following consequences:


Disordered: The unit is confused, out of formation, milling about, in each other’s way, recovering from a bad fight, and otherwise not ready for melee. Two effects occur. First, unit cohesion is diminished (Step 2), which gives a +5 to the Unit Intensity. Second, the Unit Combat Modifier (Step 4) gives a -10 modifier to all unit combat skills.

Although this is not good news for them, it doesn't affect the over Army Intensity. Therefore, the Final Army Intensity for Round Three is 16-2=14. Its creeping down!

For the Battle Events I rolled 4,4,4-10=+2

Therefore this rounds Army Intensity is at 16 again.

And so to the Unit Intensities and Maneuvers. I am happy to use GM Fiat and say that if you both get the requisite Unit Commander rolls, that you are able to find each other - that was partly behind my idea of splitting into two units, increases the variety of events, but also gives the chance to interact occasionally like this.

As mentioned in my post to the end of the Round 3 thread, I rolled 16 on my Battle roll for Meliaunce's unit. This is a success given his skill of 20, but of course the UI gets to roll (although there's a -5 modifier given our zone so it will need to be a critical to beat me).

Regards
Luke

Unit Intensity = Army Intensity + Battle Size Modifier + Terrain Modifiers + Battle Zone + Unit Cohesion

For Sir Meliaunce's Unit = 16 + 0 + 0 -5 (I always assumed this should be +% and was a typo, but it still seems to be so in the new draft) + 0 = 11

He has already rolled:



To that end, my Battle roll for round 4 is... a 16 (vs skill of 20).

Regards
Luke


That's a solid success. I rolled a 20 for the Unit Intensity, which is a fumble. I note that this means:


Unit Intensity Fumbles: Enemy is Disordered (pg. **23) by friendly archers.

That's helpful! I believe that this means that they will be at -10 to their unit combat skills.

And now for Sir Madog's Unit

Unit Intensity = Army Intensity + Battle Size Modifier + Terrain Modifiers + Battle Zone + Unit Cohesion

= 16 + 0 + 0 - 5 + 5 = 16

Against this I roll an 11, a success, but not so high.



I can try to inspire myself for the battle roll, or simply hope for the best.Merlin, is battle a combat skill? Meaning am I "-10" to it as well? If so, I might as well save the inspiration for my sword skill. I will need it.

Bob


I would assume in this case that the penalty applies to your melee rolls and not your Battle skill - the unit cohesion brings a penalty to bear here already, and so if you want to invoke a passion for this, you can do so.

Roll for this, and we can sort out who has what horses later.

Ben

I am currently finishing up camping with the family and will return by 4 pm est. If you do not want to wait, I understand. I will need someone to roll for my Battle. I think I will wait to inspire until the actual fight phase as I have essentially a 50/50 chance of beating their roll and having something to negate my '-10' might be nice. (Merlin, you could roll as well.) Having them at a -10 as well will help a lot.

Bob

I am currently finishing up camping with the family and will return by 4 pm est. If you do not want to wait, I understand. I will need someone to roll for my Battle.


Ok, I've rolled for you, a 13, a success! The standard success results are available for you.
You can take the option to Attack with Another to give you a fighting chance - and the other unit have the option of joining you should they desire, making their current enemy who is disordered, your enemy too. Note though, that this maneuver doesn't enable a Zone change, and does, if memory serves me right, only bring you 1/2 glory.

Comparing 'Stand w/Another' and 'Attack w/Another', why would anyone choose the former? You can only qualify for SwA if you also qualify for AwA, but SwA is worse in two ways (GM chooses enemy and Loss result gives you a recoil) without any redeeming advantages.

Regards
Luke

In normal situations you are quite correct. I have to take the text given in BoB as to why you would take SwA.

However, neither one will get us to the all important zone 8. As they are also disordered, I am thinking Push Deeper is the better choice. Of course, that is how we got to the point where my group is at this juncture.

I'm open to opinions from all - I will give my answer tomorrow.

Bob

If we attack together against the disordered foe, we should win easily. But the best outcome of that choice is -1 Intensity, and the disordered status going away on Sir Madog's unit.

If we both choose to push deeper, it's a more even fight. Madog's unit is disordered, but so are the enemies they face. The best result would be -4 unit intensity and both units moving up a zone, plus the loss of the disordered status. Bigger risk, bigger reward.

I think push deeper is the way to go.

I think Push Deeper is the correct way as well. We are hurting, our other unit is not, and more importantly, our enemies are also suffering the penalty as well.

So, I say, onward!

Bob

My lot are in good shape so normally I'd be all for an aggressive move such as Push Deeper, especially as our opponents are going to be disordered. But if Madog's unit goes for Push Deeper, then I'm not sure you'll get the benefit of being paired with us for the halved skill and, more importantly, the Disordered status on opponents (which derives from the fumble that was rolled against our unit).

I'll need a call on whether we can do a tandem Push Deeper from Merlin before making a final decision on this.

Regards
Luke

I'll need a call on whether we can do a tandem Push Deeper from Merlin before making a final decision on this.

Regards
Luke


As Luke suspects, if you're going to work in tandem your choices are the Stand with Another or Attack with Another. If you opt not to take these, I'd treat you as separate units attempting the same maneuvers alongside each other, but on different opponents, so you wouldn't both benefit from the disordered foes. I would permit you at this point to merge and become one unit though - but that would require Madog surrendering his Unit Commander status...

For the greater glory, I hereby acknowledge my comrade-in-arms to be my leader for the moment.

Bob

Verily Sir Madog, though tongues may wag at court I shall not say that you are the lesser man for placing your banner under mine.

Gentlemen, form upon me! We shall press the enemy more closely and mayhap seek out what booty awaits us in the camp over yonder. But I trow there shall be a mickle fight with some hard blows to deal and receive before that happy juncture.

Onward! For Albion and the Pendragon!

[That's a Push Deeper tactic against some disordered Saxons]

OOC: Sorry for the delay guys - a busy weekend! Also advance notice that we've got until Friday before a break of about a week and a half as I shall be away from the computer. Let's see what we can fit in in the meantime.

So you're going for push deeper again. Hold on and hope that its not as rough as it was for Sir Madog's unit last round! This maneuver is against 3 random foes, GM's choice. I roll: 03-Screaming Warriors, 12-Chanting Warriors & 1 Elite Axemen. First piece of good news is that none of these are archers or such like, and so you will only be facing one opponent. I think I am going to rule that it is the Elite Axemen - these are the warriors that Madog's Unit were facing last round and so it seems to fit the scenario well. Sir Meliaunce's Unit have come through to them as they were facing these opponents, and now together you are trying to push through.

For those in Meliaunce's Unit, although these are the first foe in the army table, they are no push over. Their armor isn't up to much, but they're filled with Hate for Britons and are yielding Great Axes doing plenty of damage...

So what do I need from you? Same as usual:

1) Passion Rolls if any
2) Melee Roll
3) Damage Roll
4) Horsemanship Roll
5) Followers Rolls
6) Squire Rolls

On top of this, if you were unhorsed last round let me know what you wanted to do horse-wise - are you taking your squires? if so are you abandoning him or riding encumbered with him? or do you need a horse from someone else? If you have squires with horses and are happy to abandon them to another player, feel free to jump in as needed!

For Madog,

1) Passion Rolls Hate Saxon: 16: roll 14.
2) Melee Roll: Sword 17 + 10 -10 = 17: roll: 12
3) Damage Roll: 23
4) Horsemanship Roll: 17: 9
5) Followers Rolls: 10
6) Squire Rolls: Perrin 18: 8

Couple a clarifications: Is Horsemanship a combat skill? I know it is not directly one, but it is used many times in combat. Second, are the follower and squire rolls also modified by the -10 modifier?

Bob

Sir Baer:

Great Sword (20+5 mounted): 19+5=24 critical success
Damage (14d6): 52 (!)
Horsemanship (19): 15 success
Followers (15): 4 success
Squire (18): 18 critical

You mentioned that our opponents are inspired. Werethe also inspired last round? Enemy passions only last for one round - and are usable just once - just like ours, right? (with the notable exception of berserkers). Oh, that makes me wonder, can the enemy become disheartened if they fail their passion roll?

<<<1) Passion Rolls if any
2) Melee Roll
3) Damage Roll
4) Horsemanship Roll
5) Followers Rolls
6) Squire Rolls>>>

OK, I'll readily admit I'm now a bit confused. I know that Sir Meliance is now my unit leader. Looking at Hzaark's example though I think the penalty for our last round being disordered is being applied.

1) Last round these foul scumbags killed/wounded my distant cousin Sir Frioc. (He might be Vassal knight or he might be family....I think Merlin may have altered the character sheets a little from what I first downloaded. Kin is kin though, no matter how distant.... Blood is thicker than water.... )

1) Love Family - passion roll - rolled 14 vs 15 so normal success.
2) Melee roll: Base 20 -10 (disordered) +10 (success on passion) = 20 skill. Roll is 12 (success).
3) Damage roll: (4d6) = 18
4) Horsemanship roll = 3 (skill is 16)
5) Followers roll = 18 (so fail ?) (but see question from Hzark about inspiration. The default option would seem to be that followers can never be inspired although their enemy can. This seems wrong in terms of natural justice although I need to read book of battle to see if there is a separate mechanism whereby followers can become inspired).
6) Squire rolls = 12 (age is 18 so success). (Alternatively, is my Squire inspired so skill is now 28, meaning a roll of a 12 is a critical ?).

Chris

You mentioned that our opponents are inspired. Were they also inspired last round? Enemy passions only last for one round - and are usable just once - just like ours, right? (with the notable exception of berserkers). Oh, that makes me wonder, can the enemy become disheartened if they fail their passion roll?


That's a good question, and you've forced me to go back and re-read the section in the rules to double check this. I vaguely recalled that the passion was already factored in - but reading it again, I see it isn't! Maybe there was a rule change at some point in the system's evolution and I didn't note it changing...

What does this say about last round? Where I thought they were impassioned, they weren't. You got off lightly! Lucky you :D

So how does it work? You roll against the passion score as usual, with the usual consequences.

There is also a mechanism whereby you calculate how many rounds they might have fought against foes that might trigger the passion. Roll a d6 for each. If a 6 comes up, the passion has already been used. Again, lucky you :D If no 6s come up, unlucky you as they then attempt to become impassioned ;D

These Axe Men have a Hate Britons of 20. You've been in combat for three rounds before, in an army of Britons. We know that last round the passion wasn't used, therefore I'll roll 2 d6's to see if they've used their passion before. I get a 3 and ...a 6! ::) Therefore the passion has been 'used up' already.

What happens if they mess up their passion rolls? I would assumed that they get the penalties that you would (although I wouldn't have them stripping off and running into the woods for an undetermined number of years!)

Couple a clarifications: Is Horsemanship a combat skill? I know it is not directly one, but it is used many times in combat. Second, are the follower and squire rolls also modified by the -10 modifier?

Bob


Horsemanship a combat skill? The rules don't specifically include it, although I can see where you're coming from. I'm going to say no - the rules say 'all unit combat skills' which is quite specific. I guess you could say that you fight as a unit and being disordered, that ability to fight as one is reduced. What is not reduced though is your ability to stick to the saddle as this is a solo move rather than a co-ordinated action with others. See revised answer below!

Followers receive the -10? I would say so, they are part of your fighting unit and caught up with the inability to co-ordinate the attack.

Squires? Here I think the answer is no - their roll is not a combat roll, but more akin to horsemanship. They are purely worried about keeping with you rather than keeping with the unit as a whole.

OK, I'll readily admit I'm now a bit confused. I know that Sir Meliance is now my unit leader. Looking at Hzaark's example though I think the penalty for our last round being disordered is being applied.


I forgot to state exactly who gets what penalties didn't I! Sorry. We're departing from the rules as written by having you merge as a single unit again. I think I shall rule that Sir Madog's Unit remain disordered, but Sir Meliaunce's not. You both have the advantage of the penalized opponent, but of course Sir Melaunce's Unit will be disadvantaged by the increased chance of gaining LOSSES because of the disordered state of the other unit contributing to their Unit Results. I see it as Sir Meliaunce's unit are sweeping up Sir Madog's as they catch up, whether or not this is successful remains to be seen...

Couple a clarifications: Is Horsemanship a combat skill? I know it is not directly one, but it is used many times in combat. Second, are the follower and squire rolls also modified by the -10 modifier?

Bob


Ok let's try again - just checked the glossary, and there it clearly states that Combat Skills include Battle, Siege, Horsemanship and all weapons (KAP page 112).

5) Followers roll = 18 (so fail ?) (but see question from Hzark about inspiration. The default option would seem to be that followers can never be inspired although their enemy can. This seems wrong in terms of natural justice although I need to read book of battle to see if there is a separate mechanism whereby followers can become inspired).
6) Squire rolls = 12 (age is 18 so success). (Alternatively, is my Squire inspired so skill is now 28, meaning a roll of a 12 is a critical ?).


I can find nothing in the rules about followers or squires being inspired. I guess the nearest is the bodyguard bonus where out of love the followers throw themselves between you player knight and his enemies...

I'll come back to this later - must do some work now after those posts! ;)

OK, I hate these axemen guys so I'm going to try to inspire a passion. For Meliaunce therefore it goes:

1) Passion
Hate Elite Axemen: 1514: roll 12 (normal success).
2) Melee: Sword 20 + 10 (passion) + 5 (mounted vs infantry) = 35: roll 12 + 15 = 28 (critical success)
3) Damage: 10d6: roll 36
4) Horsemanship: 17: roll 8 (normal success)
5) Followers: 15: 2 (normal success)
6) Squires n/a

NB: I don't think anyone so far has applied a bonus for being mounted, looking at previous posts the only person whose quality of result this would change is Sir Baer (ups him to a crit - 14d6, ouch) but of course the others will have higher skill totals when it comes to matching off against their opponents.

NB2: I'm happy to abide by your ruling to include Horsemanship in the 'combat rolls' for the purposes of this demo battle, but can we get a confirmation from Greg at some point that this is the intent of the BoB rules - I'm not sure that the 'categories of skills' bit from the main book is intended to inform the 'make the following rolls during a battle round' bit of the BoB.

Edited to correct passion score and remove query

Regards
Luke

NB2: I'm happy to abide by your ruling to include Horsemanship in the 'combat rolls' for the purposes of this demo battle, but can we get a confirmation from Greg at some point that this is the intent of the BoB rules - I'm not sure that the 'categories of skills' bit from the main book is intended to inform the 'make the following rolls during a battle round' bit of the BoB.


Hi Luke, I wasn't clear, that text comes from the BoB and has a page reference to KAP, rather than being text in KAP which I have applied to BoB.

Ben

NB: I don't think anyone so far has applied a bonus for being mounted, looking at previous posts the only person whose quality of result this would change is Sir Baer (ups him to a crit - 14d6, ouch) but of course the others will have higher skill totals when it comes to matching off against their opponents.

Oops, you're right. I edited my post to correct this.

OK, the Elite Axe Men have Great Axe at 20 doing 7d6 damage. They're equipped with Cuirbouilli armour giving 8 points of protection. Being disordered they are at -10 to combat rolls, and a further -5 as they're not mounted, bringing their skill down to a measly 5! Not so frightening anymore!



For Madog,
1) Passion Rolls Hate Saxon: 16: roll 14.
2) Melee Roll: Sword 17 + 10 -10 = 17: roll: 12
3) Damage Roll: 23
4) Horsemanship Roll: 17: 9
5) Followers Rolls: 10
6) Squire Rolls: Perrin 18: 8


I rolled a 14, a failure. You inflict 15 points of damage, a hefty wound there.
Against your followers I roll a 10, and so they also survive intact. Your squire manages to stay with you too.

1 WIN!



Sir Baer:
Great Sword (20+5 mounted): 19+5=24 critical success
Damage (14d6): 52 (!)
Horsemanship (19): 15 success
Followers (15): 4 success
Squire (18): 18 critical


For the Saxons I rolled a 20 - in this case a dramatic fumble. They're clearly overawed by your terrifying prowess. You take your opponents out as if they were a child's toy or some training ground exercise! I'm going to give them a Hate Sir Baer passion should you meet them again of 4d6+1=6,6,4,4=21...
Your followers aren't threatened - you've cleaved a safe passage for them!
As for your squire - he can do anything you want him to do, as well as picking up a passing (rolls...1) cart horse for you!

TWO WINS



1) Love Family - passion roll - rolled 14 vs 15 so normal success.
2) Melee roll: Base 20 -10 (disordered) +10 (success on passion) = 20 skill. Roll is 12 (success).
3) Damage roll: (4d6) = 18
4) Horsemanship roll = 3 (skill is 16)
5) Followers roll = 18 (so fail)
6) Squire rolls = 12 (age is 18 so success)


I fear it had to happen to someone, but I rolled a 5 for the Axe Men - that's a critical, but at least you get your shield...
14d6 damage = 6,6,4,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1 = 42 damage :o
You have 14 armour + shield which gives 1d6 protection against Great Axes. I rolled a 5. You also take a further 3 points of damage as you are sent crashing from your horse... This means you take a total of 26. You only have a total of 27.
Your followers have better luck, and survive a fumbled roll of 20. They manage to protect your squire as his dashes for your unconscious body to bear it from the field. As you are lifted, you have time for some last words before being taken, we hope, to safety and recovery. :'(

TWO WINS : ONE LOSS : 1 FALLEN



Meliaunce
1) Passion Hate Elite Axemen: 1514: roll 12 (normal success).
2) Melee: Sword 20 + 10 (passion) + 5 (mounted vs infantry) = 35: roll 12 + 15 = 28 (critical success)
3) Damage: 10d6: roll 36
4) Horsemanship: 17: roll 8 (normal success)
5) Followers: 15: 2 (normal success)
6) Squires n/a

I rolled a 2 for the Axe Men - a partial success, but they have no shields so that's irrelevant. Following Sir Baer you cleave your way through them with some panache.
Rolling a 10 against your followers, I see that they too comfortably make their way onwards.

THREE WINS : 1 LOSS : 1 FALLEN

Can Sir Cynon benefit from the bodyguard bonus, or have too many of his followers already fallen?

THREE WINS : 1 LOSS : 1 FALLEN


Three more knights to go and we only need one more win to secure a unit win. Go us.

Press them hard my boys, press them hard!

Regards
Luke

PS
I see on second reading that my sword roll upthread was actually a 27, not a 28 - not that it made a difference to the outcome.

Sir Pelaran

1) Passion Rolls Hate Saxon: 15: roll 20.
2) Melee Roll: Sword 18 - 10 (I think, failed passion) = 8: roll: 6
3) Damage Roll: 17
4) Horsemanship Roll: 20: 15
5) Followers Rolls: 10 = 10
6) Squire Rolls: I have no squires left, *sob*

I think I got that alright. I'm not in front of my rules to check the passion failure part.

I believe Sir Pelaran just went mad...

Also, not to throw a wrench into things that are already done, but should our followers be getting the mounted bonus?

Consequences for a failed passion roll is a -5 to all skills (which for the combat roll is negated by the mounted bonus).

However Sir Peleran fumbled his passion roll, offhand I don't recall what happens then. But madness may well be in the mix.

I note with interest that thanks to his melancholy he managed to crit his horsemanship roll, so he whatever he's done will have been done with a fair degree of equitational elan.

Regards
Luke

Sword (20 + 5 mounted)= 15 success
DMG (5d6) = 19 success
Horsemanship (19) = 10 success
Bob (18) = 16 success
Ysgarran (15) = 14 success
Follower Fate (15) = 10 success

Sir Rhys throws down his spear and pulls his sword and has at the b@star%$!!

Of course. I forgot the 20 is a automatic fumble.

Equistrian Elan is Sir Pelaran's middle names. :D

I should remember this sort of stuff seeing as I'm going to be starting the GPC in a couple of weeks time.

Congrats to starting a campaign.

Sorry about the fumble. For the playtest, I'm not sure how Merlin is going to handle it.

Bob

Can Sir Cynon benefit from the bodyguard bonus, or have too many of his followers already fallen?


Too many have fallen - I only have 4 left and need five....

Last words before being carried away....
Once more unto the Axemen, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood...

Chris

Sir Pelaran
1) Passion Rolls Hate Saxon: 15: roll 20.




Consequences for a failed passion roll is a -5 to all skills (which for the combat roll is negated by the mounted bonus).
However Sir Peleran fumbled his passion roll, offhand I don't recall what happens then. But madness may well be in the mix.
I note with interest that thanks to his melancholy he managed to crit his horsemanship roll, so he whatever he's done will have been done with a fair degree of equitational elan.
Regards
Luke


It's an interesting question. Looking at the text of BoB 1.1 it reads:


At any point during a round, a player may decide to use an appropriate Passion to inspire his knight. Typically, a player attempts to use his knight’s Hate (Saxons) Passion to increase a combat skill. He must name the skill he is going to impassion immediately after succeeding at the Passion Roll.
Each passion can be used only once per day and the effects last for one full battle round (which includes all extended melee phases). Failure to be inspired causes Melancholy, with its -5 modifier to all subsequent skills for the remainder of the day.

It doesn't mention the consequences of fumbles at all. I'll have to ask Greg about how he plays it.

Looking at the KAP rules, a fumbled passion results in an immediate reduction of 1 in the passion and madness, the player handing the character sheet to the GM and who knows where that might go. For us, that seems a little boring. How does this sound as an alternative? We'll put you at -5 for all skills for here on through - that in itself is not so nice, but is the standard result for a failed passion. The madness? Faced by these vile foe, you lose interest in your own life, and recklessly flail at them at every opportunity. It's not elegantly done, hence the -5s perhaps, but could be either dramatically effective, or dramatically ineffective! Every round from here on through, Sir Pelaran opts for the 'uncontrolled attack' or 'beserk attack as it was previously called.

An 'all out attack' works like this - you have an unopposed attack made against you. If you survive, you can attack back with a +10 on your skill.

Does that sound a reasonable approach folks?

Sword (20 + 5 mounted)= 15 success
DMG (5d6) = 19 success
Horsemanship (19) = 10 success
Bob (18) = 16 success
Ysgarran (15) = 14 success
Follower Fate (15) = 10 success

Sir Rhys throws down his spear and pulls his sword and has at the b@star%$!!


The Axe Men roll 16 - a failure. Sir Rhys fights on through them eagerly, but maybe his enthusiasm is not quite matched by his damage ;)
Good to see squires pulling through too.
Against his followers I rolled a 12, a failure, so they too make it!

FOUR WINS : 1 LOSS : 1 FALLEN

I believe Sir Pelaran just went mad...

Also, not to throw a wrench into things that are already done, but should our followers be getting the mounted bonus?


Oh @$£"& have I been missing it. I shall have to go back to previous rounds to see if it makes any difference. Quickly looking at this round, it doesn't here, but I shall pay special attention to Avalon Lad's followers, you never know...

I believe Sir Pelaran just went mad...

Also, not to throw a wrench into things that are already done, but should our followers be getting the mounted bonus?


Oh @$£"& have I been missing it. I shall have to go back to previous rounds to see if it makes any difference. Quickly looking at this round, it doesn't here, but I shall pay special attention to Avalon Lad's followers, you never know...

Sorry Chris, this didn't help you - it was archers and Great Spear wielders that did your followers - no mounted vs. unmounted bonuses.

I'm all for going for Sir Pelaran to go the uncontrolled attack route. Sounds like it could get interesting for him.

I believe Sir Pelaran just went mad...

Also, not to throw a wrench into things that are already done, but should our followers be getting the mounted bonus?


Oh @$£"& have I been missing it. I shall have to go back to previous rounds to see if it makes any difference. Quickly looking at this round, it doesn't here, but I shall pay special attention to Avalon Lad's followers, you never know...

Sorry Chris, this didn't help you - it was archers and Great Spear wielders that did your followers - no mounted vs. unmounted bonuses.


But it does show how complex this could get...
Bob

I'm all for going for Sir Pelaran to go the uncontrolled attack route. Sounds like it could get interesting for him.


Ok, let's take you original rolls and see what happens this round.

The Axe Men roll a 19 against their skill of 5. A clear failure. This is lucky for you as it is an unopposed roll. Now you get to hit back in your wild abandoned manner...



Sir Pelaran (modified to take into account passion and disordered nature of your part of the unit)
2) Melee Roll: Sword 18 - 5 (due to passion roll) +10 (uncontrolled attack) -10 (disorganised) = 13: roll: 6, converts to 9
3) Damage Roll: 17

Your wild strokes are enough to put the Axe men off in their attack, although your strokes in themselves don't cause too much damage - more focus is needed! You survive though, and glean a win!



5) Followers Rolls: 15 -10 (disorganised) = 5 : 10
6) Squire Rolls: I have no squires left, *sob*


Against your followers I rolled a 4 - this is a hit, your roll of 10 is a failure, therefore I fear you've lost another follower, this time follower number 2 (can you add your followers to the character post, striking out those who are lost to make it easier to follow? Thanks)

FIVE WINS : 1 LOSS : 1 FALLEN

Can Sir Cynon benefit from the bodyguard bonus, or have too many of his followers already fallen?


Too many have fallen - I only have 4 left and need five....
Chris


Hang on a minute Chris, there's a chance to save those last words for another time - although they were fine indeed! The bodyguard rules have been changed in the new version:


Bodyguard Bonus
Any leader can use the bodyguard bonus. A knight qualifies for this if, at the start of a round, he has with him at least 1 knight follower...
A Leader can use this bonus either before or after seeing the results of his melee round. The bodyguard bonus discards the melee results that just occurred, and the leader may attempt the melee round again...
1. Attempt the Loyalty (Lord) Passion.
If this is unknown, then use the standard value of 15. The Passion is rolled normally to modify the Follower’s modifier to combat with ×2, +10, -5 or a Fumble, which normally indicates Madness; but in this single circumstance indicates a -10 modifier to Melee.
2. Melee Round
...Result: Consequences are given in the number of men lost. If more men are lost than are present, see “Insufficient Followers.”
Win: Lord is saved; Lose 2d6-4 men
Tie: Lord is saved; Lose 2d6-3 men
Loss: Lord is saved; Lose 2d6 men
Insufficient Followers: A lord might be required to lose more Followers than he has. Despite the shortage of men, he is nonetheless saved. However, next Round his Battle skill is penalized by -5 per man that ought to have been lost.


I'm happy if you want to use these new rules. If so, roll your melee round again, and in the followers section, roll for the passion use and for the followers melee and we'll see what happens.

Sir Pelaran (modified to take into account passion and disordered nature of your part of the unit)
2) Melee Roll: Sword 18 - 5 (due to passion roll) +10 (uncontrolled attack) -10 (disorganised) = 13: roll: 6, converts to 9
3) Damage Roll: 17

You forgot to adjust for his being mounted, which returns the base skill to 18 but otherwise has no effect.



Against your followers I rolled a 4 - this is a hit, your roll of 10 is a failure


You also forgot to adjust for the followers being mounted, which means that roll of 10 becomes a critical.



FIVE WINS : 1 LOSS : 1 FALLEN


There's one more knight to report in and Chris may yet purge the loss by sacrificing his followers, so we'll either get a a unit win or a unit triumph. However the remaining combats go, the unit will get to reorder our ranks and move forward into the zone 8 - which means next round we will be behind the Anglish lines and have a decent shot at overrunning their camp for triple helpings of plunder.

Regards
Luke

Sir Pelaran (modified to take into account passion and disordered nature of your part of the unit)
2) Melee Roll: Sword 18 - 5 (due to passion roll) +10 (uncontrolled attack) -10 (disorganised) = 13: roll: 6, converts to 9
3) Damage Roll: 17

You forgot to adjust for his being mounted, which returns the base skill to 18 but otherwise has no effect.



Against your followers I rolled a 4 - this is a hit, your roll of 10 is a failure


You also forgot to adjust for the followers being mounted, which means that roll of 10 becomes a critical.



FIVE WINS : 1 LOSS : 1 FALLEN



:-[


There's one more knight to report in and Chris may yet purge the loss by sacrificing his followers, so we'll either get a a unit win or a unit triumph. However the remaining combats go, the unit will get to reorder our ranks and move forward into the zone 8 - which means next round we will be behind the Anglish lines and have a decent shot at overrunning their camp for triple helpings of plunder.

Regards
Luke


All of a sudden its looking nice!

Sir Memnon holds back and mumbles to himself as the unit surges forward. "Go get them boys. I'm no good to you in this condition."

Being wounded, dismounted and without squires, I separate from the unit in an attempt to withdraw and disengage.

Am I correct in the assumption that aside from being alone, numbers do not really matter in unit fighting. A three PK unit has the same chance (if not better odds) in gaining a victory or triumph than that of a five PK unit?

Can Sir Cynon benefit from the bodyguard bonus, or have too many of his followers already fallen?


Too many have fallen - I only have 4 left and need five....
Chris


Hang on a minute Chris, there's a chance to save those last words for another time - although they were fine indeed! The bodyguard rules have been changed in the new version:


Bodyguard Bonus
Any leader can use the bodyguard bonus. A knight qualifies for this if, at the start of a round, he has with him at least 1 knight follower...
A Leader can use this bonus either before or after seeing the results of his melee round. The bodyguard bonus discards the melee results that just occurred, and the leader may attempt the melee round again...
1. Attempt the Loyalty (Lord) Passion.
If this is unknown, then use the standard value of 15. The Passion is rolled normally to modify the Follower’s modifier to combat with ×2, +10, -5 or a Fumble, which normally indicates Madness; but in this single circumstance indicates a -10 modifier to Melee.
2. Melee Round
...Result: Consequences are given in the number of men lost. If more men are lost than are present, see “Insufficient Followers.”
Win: Lord is saved; Lose 2d6-4 men
Tie: Lord is saved; Lose 2d6-3 men
Loss: Lord is saved; Lose 2d6 men
Insufficient Followers: A lord might be required to lose more Followers than he has. Despite the shortage of men, he is nonetheless saved. However, next Round his Battle skill is penalized by -5 per man that ought to have been lost.


I'm happy if you want to use these new rules. If so, roll your melee round again, and in the followers section, roll for the passion use and for the followers melee and we'll see what happens.


Realistically, because of the implications for next round (the -5 penalty per insufficient follower) then I should call it a day and not mess up everyone's next round. The other view is that if we get a win then we move forward and intensity drops for everybody.

The purpose of the run through was to show how rules work though, so lets go for the bodyguard option.

1) They have to inspire themselves with the loyalty Lord Option. Default passion for them will be 15. I roll a 16 and fail....
2) They will now be at -5 to their skill. Their skill I calculate as; 15 (base) -10 disorganised + 10 (enemy disordered) +5 (mtd vs great axe) -5 (uninspired) + 10 (fight defensively) (don't see where the rules say that followers can't fight defensively when doing this as all the other rules seem to apply to them) = 25 skill.
3) They now roll their skill vs Axemen individually... (The Testudo is formed around Sir Cynon as they see the Axemen attempt to mash me to a pulp)

Sir Bledri (Younger Brother) - rolls 10 = 15 after modification (success)
Sir Ysgarren (Vassal Knight) - rolls 15 = 20 after modification (critical)
Sir Dyfrig (Household Knight) -rolls 14 = 19 after modification (success)
Sir Sywno (Household Knight) - roll 18 = 23 after modification (critical).

We now have to see what the consequences are in terms of follower losses though - 2d6 minus a number.
That number will will depend on what results Ben rolls for the Axemen, and will be 4, 3 or 0.
When I do a 2d6 roll of 10, then even with the best result I'm looking at being 6 followers short next round which is going to impose a 6x5% = 30% penalty to my combat skills. And now all my followers have gone...

I get to re-roll my melee combat results...

1) Love Family - passion roll - rolled 14 vs 15 so normal success. This is not re-rolled as the melee bit is what is re-rolled. This takes place before the melee bit.
2) Melee roll: Base 20 -10 (disordered) +10 (success on passion) +5 mtd vs axemen = 25 skill. Roll is 11 = 16 modified (success).
3) Damage roll: (4d6) = 17
4) Horsemanship roll = 16 (skill is 16) = critical. From KAP p73 only one skill is modified.
5) Followers roll = Not applicable. They have fought the round above.
6) Squire rolls = 3 (age is 18 so success).

So, remains to be seen what the howling axemen do.....

Chris

2) They will now be at -5 to their skill. Their skill I calculate as; 15 (base) -10 disorganised + 10 (enemy disordered) +5 (mtd vs great axe) -5 (uninspired) + 10 (fight defensively) (don't see where the rules say that followers can't fight defensively when doing this as all the other rules seem to apply to them) = 25 skill.

I thunk you added an extra +10 in there. The disordered penalty isn't reciprocal, is it?

2) They will now be at -5 to their skill. Their skill I calculate as; 15 (base) -10 disorganised + 10 (enemy disordered) +5 (mtd vs great axe) -5 (uninspired) + 10 (fight defensively) (don't see where the rules say that followers can't fight defensively when doing this as all the other rules seem to apply to them) = 25 skill.

I thunk you added an extra +10 in there. The disordered penalty isn't reciprocal, is it?


I thought the enemy were disordered as a result of our archers.

Chris

I thought the enemy were disordered as a result of our archers.


They are, but the modifier applies as a penalty to their skill not as a bonus to yours.

Also, I'm not sure the Bodyguard rules are intended to go as detailed (ie per follower) as you've gone, but I'll leave that for Merlin to rule on.

Regards
Luke

I thought the enemy were disordered as a result of our archers.


They are, but the modifier applies as a penalty to their skill not as a bonus to yours.

Also, I'm not sure the Bodyguard rules are intended to go as detailed (ie per follower) as you've gone, but I'll leave that for Merlin to rule on.

Regards
Luke


That's my read as well.
As far as the body guard bonus goes, my understanding is if you use it, and you need to lose 5 and have only 2, then you suffer 2 - 5 = -3 * 5 = -15 to your skill. You still lose the two, but only suffer the penalty to make up what you don't have. You don't suffer a -25.

This would be a great time to clarify this once and for all.

Bob

Here's what Avalon Lad rolled for his followers:



1) They have to inspire themselves with the loyalty Lord Option. Default passion for them will be 15. I roll a 16 and fail....
2) They will now be at -5 to their skill. Their skill I calculate as; 15 (base) -10 disorganised + 10 (enemy disordered) +5 (mtd vs great axe) -5 (uninspired) + 10 (fight defensively) (don't see where the rules say that followers can't fight defensively when doing this as all the other rules seem to apply to them) = 25 skill.
3) They now roll their skill vs Axemen individually... (The Testudo is formed around Sir Cynon as they see the Axemen attempt to mash me to a pulp)

Sir Bledri (Younger Brother) - rolls 10 = 15 after modification (success)
Sir Ysgarren (Vassal Knight) - rolls 15 = 20 after modification (critical)
Sir Dyfrig (Household Knight) -rolls 14 = 19 after modification (success)
Sir Sywno (Household Knight) - roll 18 = 23 after modification (critical).

We now have to see what the consequences are in terms of follower losses though - 2d6 minus a number.
That number will will depend on what results Ben rolls for the Axemen, and will be 4, 3 or 0.
When I do a 2d6 roll of 10, then even with the best result I'm looking at being 6 followers short next round which is going to impose a 6x5% = 30% penalty to my combat skills. And now all my followers have gone...

I agree that they failed their passion roll - that's clear.
I'm not sure about the melee modifier though. I make it:

15 (base) -10 (disorganised) +5 (mounted) = 10
Where you added +10 (enemy disordered), that's already factored in as others have pointed out, but in their melee skill not yours.

Can they fight defensively? You're right, the rules don't state anything about combat options for Followers. My instinct? I would argue that they match the aproach of their PC knight - you're fighting as one. I also think its inappropriate perhaps here - they're flinging themselves in front of you, without care for their lives, only yours.

I think that rather than work them out individually, you would make a single roll as usual. I'll take your first. You rolled a 10 (under Sir Bledri). Much to my surprise (I'd seen the following 15 first and was getting ready to announce bad news) that's a critical!

The Axe Men are on a modified skill of 5 as previously stated. For them I roll ...11, a failure. This means that your body guard interpose themselves succesfully, blocking you from the fate that would have befallen you. You owe them your life! How many are lost in this valiant effort? I roll a 5 & 2. Subtracting 4 as a win, I see that means you lose 3 men. Rolling for who goes down, only Sir Bledri is left standing... He deserves a generous reward when this is over.

Does that all sound fair and correct?

Now to Sir Cynon, can he make the most of this sacrifice?


I get to re-roll my melee combat results...
1) Love Family - passion roll - rolled 14 vs 15 so normal success. This is not re-rolled as the melee bit is what is re-rolled. This takes place before the melee bit.
2) Melee roll: Base 20 -10 (disordered) +10 (success on passion) +5 mtd vs axemen = 25 skill. Roll is 11 = 16 modified (success).
3) Damage roll: (4d6) = 17
4) Horsemanship roll = 16 (skill is 16) = critical. From KAP p73 only one skill is modified.


For the Axe Men I rolled an 11. Your success is higher, and although the damage is minimal, with the aid of your men, you have bravely pushed through and disaster was averted! That's a WIN!




6) Squire rolls = 3 (age is 18 so success).


And so Sir Cynon makes it through, still standing with Sir Bledri and his Squire beside him.

SIX WINS : NO LOSSES : NONE FALLEN!

Sir Memnon holds back and mumbles to himself as the unit surges forward. "Go get them boys. I'm no good to you in this condition."

Being wounded, dismounted and without squires, I separate from the unit in an attempt to withdraw and disengage.

Am I correct in the assumption that aside from being alone, numbers do not really matter in unit fighting. A three PK unit has the same chance (if not better odds) in gaining a victory or triumph than that of a five PK unit?


PM sent for clarification. You're right, numbers in a unit only effect outcome.

With Sir Memnon recusing himself, does that mean we have a Triumph?

With Sir Memnon recusing himself, does that mean we have a Triumph?


Sir Memnon's player thought he was without a horse - just PMed him to say a horse would have been available to him (assuming one of you would be kind enough to surrender one) in which case he would be able to keep up with you all should he so wish rather than acting as a separate unit. If this is so, then we shall wait on his melee scores to see if it is a Triumph or not. Alternatively, it might be that he was looking for a suitable point to bow out of the game, in which case, it would indeed be a Triumph and we'd be down to 6 players.

OK, just heard from Jim about Memnon. It looks like Memnon has indeed let you push on ahead, knowing that he may well prove a liability. Waiting to hear if he wants to play him as a unit in his own right, or if he's going to leave it there. (Just heard he wants to play on in his own unit :))

What this does mean is that you have managed what will no doubt become a much sung about Triumph, changing despair into victory, at least for now anyway! The consequences are:


Unit moves one Zone deeper into the enemy army; -2 to Intensity

You have pushed through to Zone 8 with a closing Army Intensity of 14. This is 'Behind Enemy Lines' with a -10 to Unit Intensity! One more Zone and you are in the Enemy Camp. If you reach here before the Battle is over, you have first choice on what to loot, and so in game times your loot gets multiplied by 3 :)

As I said earlier, I'm away from Monday for just over a week, but may not get much time to post this weekend. I'm tempted to say let's wait to hear what Memnon wants to do, work through his actions if he decides to play on, wrap up the round, bask in the snatching of success from defeat and leave it there until I get back.

With Sir Memnon recusing himself, does that mean we have a Triumph?


Sir Memnon's player thought he was without a horse - just PMed him to say a horse would have been available to him (assuming one of you would be kind enough to surrender one) in which case he would be able to keep up with you all should he so wish rather than acting as a separate unit. If this is so, then we shall wait on his melee scores to see if it is a Triumph or not. Alternatively, it might be that he was looking for a suitable point to bow out of the game, in which case, it would indeed be a Triumph and we'd be down to 6 players.


"What? Sir Memnon without a horse? Squire, fetch yon horse for the Knight!"

Sir Madog

"What? Sir Memnon without a horse? Squire, fetch yon horse for the Knight!"
Sir Madog


I'll make sure that horse gets to him and your squire gets back before he begins his solo round four!

If you want to follow how Sir Memnon gets on, his thread for Round Four is here: http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=929.msg8146#msg8146

I've now added my followers and squires to Sir Pelaran's sheet in Characters. Makes things a bit easier when I'm away from my sheet now,

"A horse? Squire, give your master my regards and tell him that he shall have the pick of my stables when we finish the day's business."

Bumping this.

Hi all,

Back again today and ploughing through the backlog of emails after 8 days away from the computer. I'll try and post again later today once I've caught up with work.

Ben

Next Round started: http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=939.0