This Round’s Army Intensity = Last Round’s Final Army Intensity + 3d6-10 Battle Events.
The Army Intensity didn't change last round and so this =17+10-10=17 but there is also an additional -20 for this round for Sir Meliaunce's Unit making it to the Enemy Camp which brings it down to -3!

Such a low Army Intensity has implications:

• When Army Intensity is 0 or less at the start of a second consecutive round, the entire enemy army routs. You have attained a Decisive Victory. Enemy unit maneuver is Run Away, and your unit may Chase.
• When Army Intensity is 0 or less at the start of a round, the entire enemy army hesitates...Enemy unit maneuver is Withdraw, Player units may Follow.

Unit Intensity = Army Intensity + Battle Size Modifier + Terrain Modifiers + Battle Zone + Unit Cohesion
We are still dealing with two units:

For Sir Meliaunce's Unit:
=-3+0+0-20 (in Zone 9)+0=-23! This is disastrous, for them that is!
For Sir Memnon:
=-3+0+0+10 (in Zone 5) +10 (for being alone) -20 (disengaged)=-3!

Things are definitely on the up!

Make Battle rolls as Unit Commanders and tell me what you want to do. You can't fail, but there is the chance of a critical. They are Withdrawing, your options are to either stop where you are, or to follow.

I rolled a 15 which is a solid success given Sir Meliaunce's Battle skill of 20.

Sir Memnon

Battle (17 Skill): Rolled 4 (1d20=4) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2679931/)

Low, but good enough for a win.

Now that the battle has turned. Trying to find my squires at this point would be a waste of time, so I will charge.

Sir Memnon

Battle (17 Skill): Rolled 4 (1d20=4) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2679931/)

Low, but good enough for a win.

Now that the battle has turned. Trying to find my squires at this point would be a waste of time, so I will charge.


Technically I don't think you have the option to charge - the quote in the first post indicates that it is let them leave or use the follow maneuvre. However, as you are disengaged having withdrawn, I'm going to permit you to charge into the retreating army, but will allow them the +5 they would get if using the follow maneuver. Does that sound reasonable?

Charging is against one random unit - I roll 14 - this gives you a bunch of flashy warriors. They are on foot, yielding great spears. It looks as if they are maybe wealthier than most - could there be a ransom opportunity here?

You get +5 for the lance charge, but not +5 for being mounted as they have great spears.
They get the +5 mentioned above. No other modifiers. Rolls please!

I rolled a 15 which is a solid success given Sir Meliaunce's Battle skill of 20.


Great. You have one foe chosen at random... Unfortunately you get a bunch of Beserkers (I rolled 19) who are clearly inspired :o

But all is not lost. Refering to the notes, I see that your opponents get +5 as you are following, but as these are on foot, their skill is then halved. Their skill is 18 + 10 (inspired) +5 (followed) / 2 (on foot) = 18. This might be the best time to meet these critters...

You are mounted and so get +5.

Rolls please!

Hang on, what's this about units on foot halving their skill? Don't they get a reflexive -5?

Also what about the opposing UI battle roll? Aren't there increased chances for fumbles if effective skill has gone negative?

Also, also - I hadn't yet decided whether to follow or not as I was under the impression that the choice was potentially affected by the result of the unit commander vs UI roll off. Was I wrong there? Does making a unit commander roll imply that I've already committed to 'Follow' in this (admittedly somewhat unusual) circumstance?

Regards
Luke

I think the enemy auto fumbles with a -23 intensity, don't they? That would mean they'd be disordered as well.

It is a little confusing that there's a withdraw army action that is apparently different than the withdraw unit action.

I'm not sure what following does for us. We've already won the battle - there doesn't seen to be a way for then to recover. And we're sitting in their camp, taking their stuff. Just more opportunity for glory I guess.

I hate flashy warriors, ransom be damned.

Passion Hate (Flashy Warriors) 12 = For my lance skill. Rolled 8 (1d20=8) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680932/)

Lance skill (19+10 passion=29): I think the great spear also cancels out the charge bonus. Rolled 20 -Critical. Yikes, passion saved me from a fumble.
(1d20=20) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680934/)

Damage 5d6 (Courser)+ 5d6 (Critical): Rolled 33 (5d6=12, 5d6=21) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680954/)

Horsemanship (17): Rolled 14 (1d20=14) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680957/)

Followers (15): Rolled 8 (1d20=8) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680959/)

No Squires

Responses to queries re. Follow Maneuver



Hang on, what's this about units on foot halving their skill? Don't they get a reflexive -5?

That's what I would have thought until I read the rules in BoB for following (in both the published BoB1 & in BoB1.1). Here they have a +5 (+10 in BoB1) for withdrawing, and then half their skill if on foot. I've assumed that they don't get a further -5 on that as this seems somewhat harsh, but I will check with Greg.


Also what about the opposing UI battle roll? Aren't there increased chances for fumbles if effective skill has gone negative?

Of course you're right as Tychus also points out. Checking the rules, there is no such thing as a skill at a - value, its reckoned as 0. Attempting it classes as an automatic failure, but you have to roll anyway, in case you roll a 20 which would be a fumble.


Also, also - I hadn't yet decided whether to follow or not as I was under the impression that the choice was potentially affected by the result of the unit commander vs UI roll off. Was I wrong there? Does making a unit commander roll imply that I've already committed to 'Follow' in this (admittedly somewhat unusual) circumstance?

In this situation, if I read the rules correctly, you only have the two options, to stop where you are, or to follow. The fact that you made the roll implied to me that you were hoping to follow - if you just wanted to stop you wouldn't need to do anything as they're not interested in fighting, just leaving as safely as they can.



I think the enemy auto fumbles with a -23 intensity, don't they? That would mean they'd be disordered as well.

See comment above.


It is a little confusing that there's a withdraw army action that is apparently different than the withdraw unit action.

Yes, I hadn't noticed this before either.


I'm not sure what following does for us. We've already won the battle - there doesn't seen to be a way for then to recover. And we're sitting in their camp, taking their stuff. Just more opportunity for glory I guess.


I guess there's glory, revenge and maybe the chance if you critical on your Battle roll of an opportunity, maybe even getting the enemy leader etc. I also presume that by fighting on, next round opens hopefully with a Army Intensity of 0 -that's two rounds in a row which is a Decisive Victory, with its x2 bonus to the final levels of glory

Got a reply from Greg to confirm that I'd interpreted the rules correctly. What do you want to do - press on with the 'follow' maneuver, in which case I'll roll against the Unit Intensity to check it doesn't critical, or wrap it up there?

Ben

As a playtest, we could go for either. In the case of a real campaign, I would of course know why there was this battle and what we are supposed to do (repel them from our borders, slaughter them to the last man, and so on.)

Since there is no backdrop, I'd say lets just grab the loot (x3). Of course, this brings up the question I've had since the beginning. It says (don't have book with me, so can't quote page), an indecisive victory yields no booty. My question is WHY? We have reached the camp and will have at least one round of grabbing...

Bob

Got a reply from Greg to confirm that I'd interpreted the rules correctly. What do you want to do - press on with the 'follow' maneuver, in which case I'll roll against the Unit Intensity to check it doesn't critical, or wrap it up there?


What the hell, lucre is transient whereas glory is forever. Let's try and take out the beserkers (do I get a check in valorous?).

Looking at the section on withdrawing I see that it says to halve their skill for being afoot before applying the bonus for withdrawing which would make their weapon skill calculation 18 (base) + 10 (passion) = 28; halved to 14 and then +5 (withdrawing) for a final skill total of 19. If the UI roll fumbles the battle roll then this would then be halved again for being disordered by friendly archers.

Anyway here are Sir Meliaunce's rolls:

Sword (20 + 5 mounted): rolled 7 (+5), result 12
Damage (5d6): rolled 14
Horsemanship (17): rolled 8
Squires: both lost
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 13

Regards
Luke

Sir Baer hates berserkers - they represent everything savage about his Saxon heritage. He will attempt to inspire himself.

Hate Berserkers (12): 5
Great Sword (20+5+10): 19+15=34 critical
Damage (14d6): 45
Horsemanship (19): 13 success
Followers (15): 20 fumble
Squire (18): 7 success

Looks like the followers success last round has caught up with them. (Unless they get the +5 mounted bonus, then their fumble becomes a critical success).

Sword (18): 11 Success
Damage (4d6): 15
Horsemanship (20): 11 success
Followers (15): 17, oh dear.

No squires.

Here are Madog's rolls:

Sword (17 + 5 mounted): rolled 16 (+5), result 21
Damage (5d6): rolled 23 (my dice are now being prepared for sacrifice)
Horsemanship (17): rolled 12
Squires: (Perrin 18): 9
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 15 (so either a critical or normal success)

Bob

Sorry for the delay in responding guys - I'm taking two funerals on top of my usual commitments this week, and one of them in my Grandad-in-Law - and so somewhat occupied with other matters. So how do you fare?

Sir Memnon

Rolling against the Unit Intensity, I see that it did not fumble, and so the results stay as they were.



I hate flashy warriors, ransom be damned.

Passion Hate (Flashy Warriors) 12 = For my lance skill. Rolled 8 (1d20=8) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680932/)

Lance skill (19+10 passion=29): I think the great spear also cancels out the charge bonus. Rolled 20 -Critical. Yikes, passion saved me from a fumble.
(1d20=20) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680934/)

Followers (15): Rolled 8 (1d20=8) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2680959/)


Their base skill I fear is 25 - its not just their outfits that are flashy! This is modified to 30 as they are withdrawing. I rolled a 19 for them, which with the +10 due to the skill of 30 modifies to a critical...

A critical tie doesn't result in much damage being done by you nor your opponents. Each receive 1d3 (using GPC rule for crit. ties if memory serves me right) - no ransom today I'm afraid. You take the grand sum or 2...

Against your followers I roll a 5. Not a crit this time, but the higher success. This means that Sir Tiberius Ulpius Celer (Household Knight) falls under their blows.

That critical not only saved your skin, but it also won you a UNIT WIN, reducing the Army Intensity by 1 and moving you forward 1 Zone, into Zone 6!

Sir Meliaunce


Looking at the section on withdrawing I see that it says to halve their skill for being afoot before applying the bonus for withdrawing which would make their weapon skill calculation 18 (base) + 10 (passion) = 28; halved to 14 and then +5 (withdrawing) for a final skill total of 19. If the UI roll fumbles the battle roll then this would then be halved again for being disordered by friendly archers.

Good catch, misread there, honest check too as that makes it harder for you!

I just rolled the Unit Intensity Roll - and much to my surprise, it did indeed fumble and so they end up with a score of 10! Beserkers? Tantruming toddlers more like... :o


Anyway here are Sir Meliaunce's rolls:

Sword (20 + 5 mounted): rolled 7 (+5), result 12
Damage (5d6): rolled 14
Horsemanship (17): rolled 8
Squires: both lost
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 13

I rolled an 8, a success, but yours is higher. With hides for protection, only 6 points get through. Against your followers I rolled a 2. They also live on!

1 WIN : No LOSSES



Sir Baer hates berserkers - they represent everything savage about his Saxon heritage. He will attempt to inspire himself.

Hate Berserkers (12): 5
Great Sword (20+5+10): 19+15=34 critical
Damage (14d6): 45
Horsemanship (19): 13 success
Followers (15): 20 fumble
Squire (18): 7 success

Looks like the followers success last round has caught up with them. (Unless they get the +5 mounted bonus, then their fumble becomes a critical success).


Against you I roll a 3. You win and blast those berserkers to Valhalla and back!
In the end it doesn't matter whether or not your followers get a mounted bonus as against them the beserkers also fumbled (yes, another 20!) They live on to serve you!

TWO WINS : NO LOSSES



Sword (18): 11 Success
Damage (4d6): 15
Horsemanship (20): 11 success
Followers (15): 17, oh dear.

No squires.


I roll a 10 - that's another success! Your damage is minimal, but the glory immense!
Against the followers I roll 19. They scrape through.

THREE WINS : NO LOSSES



Here are Madog's rolls:

Sword (17 + 5 mounted): rolled 16 (+5), result 21
Damage (5d6): rolled 23 (my dice are now being prepared for sacrifice)
Horsemanship (17): rolled 12
Squires: (Perrin 18): 9
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 15 (so either a critical or normal success)

Bob


I roll an 11 - a failure, and you've failed to notice that you criticalled. Don't cast aside them dice yet, you in fact do 46 damage. Much more like it! Your unit are indeed pummelling them this time around. Rolling an 8, your followers also drive on through, your squire joining happily in the joyful romp!

FOUR WINS : NO LOSSES so far. With your success and Sir Memnon hanging on, it looks like a decisive victory may indeed be yours!

Merlin,

Sorry to have led you astray here:

Quote from: Hzark10 on September 12, 2010, 08:06:11 AM
Here are Madog's rolls:

Sword (17 + 5 mounted): rolled 16 (+5), result 21
Damage (5d6): rolled 23 (my dice are now being prepared for sacrifice)
Horsemanship (17): rolled 12
Squires: (Perrin 18): 9
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 15 (so either a critical or normal success)

Bob

I roll an 11 - a failure, and you've failed to notice that you criticalled. Don't cast aside them dice yet, you in fact do 46 damage. Much more like it! Your unit are indeed pummelling them this time around. Rolling an 8, your followers also drive on through, your squire joining happily in the joyful romp!

I did notice I criticalled. What you missed was the 23 was on 10d6!!! That was the reason for the comment about sacrificing.Glad to here about the rest.

My condolences on your situation.

Bob

Sword (17 + 5 mounted): rolled 16 (+5), result 21

Actually, this makes your skill 22, so you should only add +2 to the roll, for a total of 18, so just a normal success after all.

It's still a win though.

Sir Cynon rolls:

Spear (20 + 5 mounted = 25): rolled 9 (+5), result 14
Damage (4d6): rolled 11
Horsemanship (16): rolled 4
Squires: (18): 1
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 2

Chris

Sword (20 + 5 mounted)= 8 success
DMG (5d6) = 15
Horsemanship (19) = 7 success
Bob (18) = 8 success
Follower Fate (15) = 16 fail

As Sir Rhys hacks his way through the woman and children (Saxon scum) he hears an inhuman roar and turns almost to late as the monstrous beserkers crash into his steed.

Sir Cynon rolls:

Spear (20 + 5 mounted = 25): rolled 9 (+5), result 14
Damage (4d6): rolled 11
Horsemanship (16): rolled 4
Squires: (18): 1
Followers (15, +5 for mounted?): rolled 2


I roll 18 for the Beserkers, a failure. Their hides seem to take most of your blows, but you successfully battle through, your faithful squire by your side. Against your followers I roll 15, a failure, and so they too make it through.

FIVE WINS : NO LOSSES



Sword (20 + 5 mounted)= 8 success
DMG (5d6) = 15
Horsemanship (19) = 7 success
Bob (18) = 8 success
Follower Fate (15) = 16 fail

As Sir Rhys hacks his way through the woman and children (Saxon scum) he hears an inhuman roar and turns almost to late as the monstrous beserkers crash into his steed.


Against Sir Rhys I roll an 8, he is indeed locked into a grunting stalemate with his reckless opponents. Pushing and shoving, he fails to overcome them, as they fail to overcome him. As a tie, it counts as a WIN for Unit purposes. Against the followers I roll a 15, a failure, so they too struggle in a similar fashion, but with no losses.

SIX WINS : NO LOSSES!

A TRIUMPH IS SCORED!
The consequences of this are usually -2 Intensity; Move forward 2 Zones, of which only the first is particularly relevant to us as you are already at the furthest zone.

So let's pull this together and see what the outcome is. When we began this round:


This Round’s Army Intensity = Last Round’s Final Army Intensity + 3d6-10 Battle Events.
The Army Intensity didn't change last round and so this =17+10-10=17 but there is also an additional -20 for this round for Sir Meliaunce's Unit making it to the Enemy Camp which brings it down to -3!

Sir Meliaunce's Unit achieved a Triumph bringing the closing Army Intensity for this Round down to -5.
Sir Memnon achieved a single-handed Unit Win, bringing it down a further 1 to -6!

As we saw at the start of the last round, this has significant consequences:


• When Army Intensity is 0 or less at the start of a second consecutive round, the entire enemy army routs. You have attained a Decisive Victory. Enemy unit maneuver is Run Away, and your unit may Chase.
• When Army Intensity is 0 or less at the start of a round, the entire enemy army hesitates...Enemy unit maneuver is Withdraw, Player units may Follow.

Round 7 will begin with your opponents routing. You have achieved a DECISIVE VICTORY!!! ;D ;D ;D

Will you want to chase them for the glory, or shall I start working through for the glory won, the survivors etc. etc.

Just to be pedantic, there's a 1/216 chance that the Battle Events roll is an 18 which would adjust the Army Intensity to 1 and thus stop the enemy routing from the field next round.

Assuming that this doesn't happen however, Sir Meliaunce's order to his unit is to leave the saxon coursing to the rest of the army - as a veteran of the Italian Wars, he's got a few tips about how professionals go about looting a camp that he'd like to impart to the youngsters...

Regards
Luke

I'm not worried about the glory, but I do have some questions about the chase action. It came up recently in my own game, and it was pretty counterintuitive as written. Namely sing the hunting skill instead of a combat skill - which suddenly can put expert fighters at greater risk than they've been the whole battle (when they have a hunting skill of 2, as some of my PKs do). Also there was mention of a possible rearguard encounter, but I wasn't really clear how that would play out either. So it'd be useful for me to see someone else's interpretation of a chase round.

Just to be pedantic, there's a 1/216 chance that the Battle Events roll is an 18 which would adjust the Army Intensity to 1 and thus stop the enemy routing from the field next round.

Of course you're right - running ahead of myself grabbing a quick moment to post! :-[
I'll roll now just to check... 4,3,2-10=1 which brings the Army Intensity to -5 again

Let's see what the others want to do regarding the chase next round - doesn't matter if we split again here, its supposed to be messy!

Let's see what the others want to do regarding the chase next round - doesn't matter if we split again here, its supposed to be messy!


Sure thing. "Off you go lads, have fun. I'll be in the camp tallying loot if you need me."

Altho' won't anyone opting to pursue need to create a Hunting skill?

Regards
Luke

Aaah, a week has gone by and I've had no time to get back to this - a thousand apologies, work overload!
Judging by the lack of replies to the chase, I think we may have run our course. I'm afraid I'm not going to get a chance to work through things this week, but next I'll try and wrap up the lose threads and finish things off. Sorry that the end has been more of a petering out than a crescendo :-[ Its been fun though, thanks guys!

Please forgive my interruption



Here are Madog's rolls:

Sword (17 + 5 mounted): rolled 16 (+5), result 21


is this +5 to the die roll result?
why

Oops, caught me fudging. Should have been a +2 (17 +5 = 22), and not a +5 as my skill was only 22, not 25. But since it doesn't change the outcome, it shouldn't matter.

Good catch, though.

Bob

A thousand apologies for going AWOL just as this reached its climax... took over for a while back there.
I suspect you may have decided this is finished, but I will try and wrap it up properly this week. I'll make a new thread over here: http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=966.0

Split reflections on the battle into a new thread here: http://www.gspendragon.com/roundtable/index.php?topic=968.0 to keep things tidy

Ben