I read a post earlier that talked about the fact that you do not get Glory from traits as of 5.1.

I want to adopt this rule to an existing game, but I'm not sure how to adopt it. I like the general idea, but still want to motivate some glory from traits.

I am considering one of the following house-rules, and would like to some advice.
You gain 1 annual Glory for each point in a trait over 15. (i.e. 16 in Energetic gives 1 Annual Glory, 19 gives 4 Annual Glory.
You gain 3 annual glory for each trait 16 or more. (i.e. 16 in Energetic gives 3 Annual Glory, 19 gives 3 Annual Glory.)
You gain glory if you check a trait during play. (i.e. a player succeeds and gains 5 (non-annual) glory, a crit might give 10 or more)


This would ring well with the fact that you gain Glory (i.e. people talk about you) for having a strong personality. But it's no where near as important as it was before.

P.S. You would of course still get 100 Glory from Chivalrous and Religious.

You gain glory if you check a trait during play. (i.e. a player succeeds and gains 5 (non-annual) glory, a crit might give 10 or more)

I like this one. Since it demands a check, the GM can control the amount of Glory handed out by adjusting who many checks he gives. And it puts a premium on what happens in play. This rules says, "no-one cares if you have a Pious of 19 and spends the whole year in a bee-hive on Out Hebrides. You have to act Pious to get Glory".

Of course, you could also use the old rule (Glory = the value of Trait/passion above 15) but with a cap, of say 50 or 100 annual Glory from Traits/Passions.

You gain glory if you check a trait during play. (i.e. a player succeeds and gains 5 (non-annual) glory, a crit might give 10 or more)

I like this one. Since it demands a check, the GM can control the amount of Glory handed out by adjusting who many checks he gives. And it puts a premium on what happens in play. This rules says, "no-one cares if you have a Pious of 19 and spends the whole year in a bee-hive on Out Hebrides. You have to act Pious to get Glory".

Of course, you could also use the old rule (Glory = the value of Trait/passion above 15) but with a cap, of say 50 or 100 annual Glory from Traits/Passions.


Yeah, this idea is growing on me. I need a good way to keep track of glory during play anyway.

Although I'm getting some backlash from my players when mentioning lowering their annual glory, seems they feel it may lessen their characters. I'll have to ponder this further.

Yaeh, think what would have happened if I have tried to do a refrom on this scale in Blood+Lust ...

You need to bring your players around on this one, or just live with the Glory Inflation ...

Yaeh, think what would have happened if I have tried to do a refrom on this scale in Blood+Lust ...

You need to bring your players around on this one, or just live with the Glory Inflation ...


Perhaps they should get 10 Glory for each check in traits and 20 for a crit. It might mitigate their sorrows a bit...

Also, might be worth writing them down.
"Feasted with Uther Pendragon. [Indulgent] - 10 Glory"
"Held my codpiece in place against the lady in the woods. [Chaste] - 20 Glory"

I think that the amount of Glory in this system should be equal to the value of the Trait or Passion; hence a check of Just 9 gives 9 Glory, a check of Pious 21 gives 21 Glory. This means that players still have an incentive to get a couple of high Traits (and Passions, buts that a lesser problem, since its too good to have high Passion even if you don't get an ounce of Glory for them). This also means that the GM dont have to do any bookkeeping, the players just adds together the value of all their PKs checked traits and passions in the Winter Phase, and hey presto! thats the Glory they will get for thier personality that year.

A crit could give 10 extra Glory, or mabey no Glory at all.

I use the following houserule:
- You get the value of your highest trait or passion as glory each year.
- Each additional trait or passion higher than 15 gives 1 glory.

In my game the glory per year is reduced from 60-70 to something like 20-25. As I am using the rule of about 200-300 glory per year I find that this feels more appropriate.

Nice rule. really.

I do think that the 200-300 Glory per annum is a good baseline. I'd give out more spectacular years (large battles, dangerous adventures), but not on routine years. You must keep Glory inflation in check in this game.

I posted my thoughts on this some time back, I use traits that are notable and get checked earn annual glory equal to thier value. Notable meaning 16+, they need not improve so long as they get checked from roleplay. It has the merit of being controlled by the Gm. Autoawarding checks from improvements do not get the annual glory for this, not automatically, the GM may decide. I allow the Christian and Religious bonus as normal. Passions as normal, Landholding as normal. Sometimes if the situation warrants even a skill or weapon skilll may gain this annual glory

I posted my thoughts on this some time back, I use traits that are notable and get checked earn annual glory equal to thier value. Notable meaning 16+, they need not improve so long as they get checked from roleplay. It has the merit of being controlled by the Gm. Autoawarding checks from improvements do not get the annual glory for this, not automatically, the GM may decide. I allow the Christian and Religious bonus as normal. Passions as normal, Landholding as normal. Sometimes if the situation warrants even a skill or weapon skilll may gain this annual glory


This is how I use it now, with the exception that I use passions the same way as traits.

It works well, as long as you remember to count the annual before you start rolling in the winterphase.

I posted my thoughts on this some time back, I use traits that are notable and get checked earn annual glory equal to thier value. Notable meaning 16+, they need not improve so long as they get checked from roleplay. It has the merit of being controlled by the Gm. Autoawarding checks from improvements do not get the annual glory for this, not automatically, the GM may decide. I allow the Christian and Religious bonus as normal. Passions as normal, Landholding as normal. Sometimes if the situation warrants even a skill or weapon skilll may gain this annual glory


This is how I use it now, with the exception that I use passions the same way as traits.

It works well, as long as you remember to count the annual before you start rolling in the winterphase.


Glad I could be of help. :)

The only reason i retain the Passions, is because Greg says to. In the errata, I believe it no glory from traits, but full glory still from passions. If you dont hand out alot of checks, then keeping the passions the same is probably going to keep you from having to low of an annual glory. Which i have had happen to me when I did it that way.(both passions and traits as 16+ and checked nets annual glory). In some shorter years, the glory from annual was miniscule. Though your mileage may vary depending on how you hand out check and gm style.

A bit of an update on this, sorry for the necro, but I did not think it was worth a new thread.

I have returned to using the older rules with annual glory for traits above 16. It was to much of a hassle to count annual only for those you check, mostly since you count glory after you roll for checks.

Also, I like that players try to achieve stronger character-traits, it means I can use them in play. Several of my players lack a bit of initiative and need that extra "You crit vengefull, you HAVE to act." to get the rp rolling. Without the glory incentive, I noticed that played showed a lot more interest in skills.

I still have a bit too much annual Glory, and the next time I run i might change to the errata or another house rule.

This is my current view of the problem:
* Original rule: Some PK tends to get a LOT of glory compared to many well known npcs.
* Errata rule: PK tends to get too little annual glory, and the incentive to play your stats more actively lessens.
* House-rules: To complicated as of yet.

I'm using the errata rule in my current campaign, and I'm very happy. Glory levels are much lower and the game runs much better. I have seen no tendencies to worse role-playing; rather the reverse, players are freer in their choices and tend to focus more broadly on their characters personalities than seeming them as a bunch of Traits.

But, since that seems not to appeal to you, just set a cap. No more than 200 or 250 or 300 annual Glory.

Or: A PK can never earn more annual Glory than in-game Glory. Ok, it's not very elegant (or logical) but it keep those 400+ annual Glory beasts from sitting at home and see their Glory tick in without lifting their fat ar*** out of their beds.

I'm using the errata rule in my current campaign, and I'm very happy. Glory levels are much lower and the game runs much better. I have seen no tendencies to worse role-playing; rather the reverse, players are freer in their choices and tend to focus more broadly on their characters personalities than seeming them as a bunch of Traits.

But, since that seems not to appeal to you, just set a cap. No more than 200 or 250 or 300 annual Glory.

Or: A PK can never earn more annual Glory than in-game Glory. Ok, it's not very elegant (or logical) but it keep those 400+ annual Glory beasts from sitting at home and see their Glory tick in without lifting their fat ar*** out of their beds.


I'm listening. But if I do this, I need to do it from the start.

I'm listening. But if I do this, I need to do it from the start.


Yeah. But a cap - would that create a player revolt. Explain to them that the game will be better for it!

I'm listening. But if I do this, I need to do it from the start.


Yeah. But a cap - would that create a player revolt. Explain to them that the game will be better for it!


Next campaign, I'll do it the errata way I think. It will be easier to do the change between times. I'll try it this way first. Thanks for the advice as usual. :D

Next campaign, I'll do it the errata way I think. It will be easier to do the change between times. I'll try it this way first. Thanks for the advice as usual. :D


Go forth, Padwan, and be awesome ;D

Like mentioned in another thread, I am starting to veer towards the idea of dropping the Glory Rewards from Religious and Chivalric, but keeping the Trait&Passion Glory.

Here are some of the reasons:
1) Religious and Chivalric already give very desirable benefits, even if you ignore the glory reward.
2) The canonical Glory Reward, 100 each, is very high, rivaling the Glory one gains from a significant, successful adventure.
3) Whilst it is possible to gain significant Glory from Traits & Passions, they come with their own limitations on how you have to act when you have the Trait or Passion at 16+. Hence, it is self-balancing in a way, and provides hooks for the GM to tug the PKs with. I -like- hooks. :P (In the new campaign, there was an actual scramble to -reduce- Passions of 16+, as some players preferred the freedom over the rather modest Glory reward. Ah, my players, they know me so well...)
4) If one has both Trait & Religious Glory, it ends up in double dipping.

It is reasonably doable, for a PK, to get Yearly Glory around 100 from Traits, Passions and other sources, without Religious and Chivalric. With Religious and Chivalric, it becomes possible to reach 300, even 400 in the case of one of the old PKs. This is starting to be a bit too much Yearly Glory for my taste, and the easiest way to achieve my goal is simply to take away the bits that I dislike (Glory from Religious and Chivalric) and keep the bits that I like (Trait and Passion Glory).

Like mentioned in another thread, I am starting to veer towards the idea of dropping the Glory Rewards from Religious and Chivalric, but keeping the Trait&Passion Glory.

Here are some of the reasons:
1) Religious and Chivalric already give very desirable benefits, even if you ignore the glory reward.
2) The canonical Glory Reward, 100 each, is very high, rivaling the Glory one gains from a significant, successful adventure.
3) Whilst it is possible to gain significant Glory from Traits & Passions, they come with their own limitations on how you have to act when you have the Trait or Passion at 16+. Hence, it is self-balancing in a way, and provides hooks for the GM to tug the PKs with. I -like- hooks. :P (In the new campaign, there was an actual scramble to -reduce- Passions of 16+, as some players preferred the freedom over the rather modest Glory reward. Ah, my players, they know me so well...)
4) If one has both Trait & Religious Glory, it ends up in double dipping.

It is reasonably doable, for a PK, to get Yearly Glory around 100 from Traits, Passions and other sources, without Religious and Chivalric. With Religious and Chivalric, it becomes possible to reach 300, even 400 in the case of one of the old PKs. This is starting to be a bit too much Yearly Glory for my taste, and the easiest way to achieve my goal is simply to take away the bits that I dislike (Glory from Religious and Chivalric) and keep the bits that I like (Trait and Passion Glory).


Well, it's getting quite obvious that we have an inflation of glory in my current campaign, but I think I'll ride it out this time. After all, the players love it, and after a glory-heavy year they all very happy, and that is why we play. What I have done to compensate, is to raise the glory for a few known npc's to make sure that they are on par with the players glory. For now, this works.

In the next campaign, I will probably revise it so I won't have to compensate. As it looks now, I will remove glory from traits and passions, but keep it for chivalry and religious (although probably with some modifications). This makes chivalry feel like more of an achivement.

As always, thanks for the insight from everyone, this is my first campaign. I'm still expermimenting, and the insight from more experienced GM's use usefull.

If you are playing with Chivalric traits 80+ = Chivalric, then Chivalric is one of the easiest 'boosts' you can get. The only time I am not seeing a character practically start with Chivalric is when they are playing a Pagan or deliberately a Famously Proud character or something. Trust me, +3 Armor is achievement enough.

If you are playing with Chivalric traits 96+ = Chivalric (Greg's stricter opinion), then sure, it is a huge achievement and they deserve that extra +100 Glory for it.

I do agree with you that it is best not to do any sharp corrections in mid-campaign. In the end, 100 more Glory results in a grand total of 3 extra glory points over a 30 year career. Nothing to get bent out of shape about, when you can fiddle with the NPC Glory amounts at your whim. But I also agree with Skarpskytten that huge amounts of Annual Glory 'cheapens' the actual heroism on the field. I -prefer- PKs who earn their Glory the hard way. ;)

* Original rule: Some PK tends to get a LOT of glory compared to many well known npcs.


I use the original rule, and will stick to it. PK+RTK are the exception in my world, let them get loads of glory.
The only houserule I would contemplate is 100 glory max from 16+ traits, just like most other sources of glory are kapped at 100.
[On top of this 100 comes the chivalry/religious bonus etc]. But I've never seen that cap reached..

fg,
Thijs

Feast your eyes on this, Thijs:

Annual Glory Rewards
Traits 136 Chivalry 100 Holdings 38
Passions 56 Religion 100 Other (superlative knight) 12
Total: 442

Granted, the player deliberately aimed to make an Annual Glory Machine, and I allowed the manorial DV to add to the Holding Glory, figuring 'why not since the castles give Glory, too'. Not that it is the main contributor here by any means (I think +14 Glory / year, which is nothing I get bent out of shape for).

Traits 16+: Christian Traits, Just, Valorous
Passions 16+: Loyalty (Lord), (Group), (Pendragon) (Since Loyalty passions tend to get a big bonus easily.)

Taking away the Religious and Chivalric Glory awards and ruling that you can only get your HIGHEST Loyalty Passion no matter how many you stack up would reduce the above total to 206, which is still high, but not dwarfing the usual adventure / tournament / court glory of the year. But like said, I wouldn't change this in mid-game.

I had an exact player like this.. he even got annual glory for his famous horse-stables. 490 annual glory or so.
I dont see the problem. Everyone knew him in Salisbury, came to him with their problems, the Earl was asking non-stop donations, his wife was spending all his money on churches.
He was struggling non-stop to keep his traits up and because of that became the most interesting character..
He became famous enough that people turned to him to avoid choosing between Lancelot and Mordred.. and there he was being humble... it was great.

I also had players which put every glory point in sword and sought out exotic trainers to get the skill even higher, far lands did they travel...

A player with high traits are a gift to GM.. look beyond just the numbers on paper.
I see it all as opportunities. Every game can be min-maxed, but if a player likes that (I love min-maxing when playing ADnD) than give the player that instead of taking it away. But also give him the consequences of his actions.
Removing trait bonus removes reason to have high traits..

fg,
Thijs

Removing trait bonus removes reason to have high traits..


Which is what I think I have said that I wouldn't do. Instead, take away the Glory Bonus for Religious (you already get the +6 HP or whatever, and Glory +80 from the high Religious traits) and Chivalric (+3 Armor of Honor, + Glory from high traits if the limit is higher). People still minmax, but the Annual Glory would not swamp the Adventure Glory under it.

Good point. Perhaps lowering it to 50 or even removing completely.. Or as mentioned make it 80/88/96 equal to 25/50/100 glory...

Good point. Perhaps lowering it to 50 or even removing completely.. Or as mentioned make it 80/88/96 equal to 25/50/100 glory...


Remove completely. With the 96 Chivalric requirement, you already are looking at around 80 - 100 Glory points from the Chivalric Traits + Honor. No need whatsoever to give ADDITIONAL 100 Glory to unbalance it even more.

Good point. Perhaps lowering it to 50 or even removing completely.. Or as mentioned make it 80/88/96 equal to 25/50/100 glory...Remove completely. With the 96 Chivalric requirement, you already are looking at around 80 - 100 Glory points from the Chivalric Traits + Honor. No need whatsoever to give ADDITIONAL 100 Glory to unbalance it even more.
I would disagree. You can get lots of Glory for being Proud and Lustful and Rash. The 100 Glory for being Chivalric is from the PK acting out the social "goal" of chivalry.

I don't give the 100 Chivalry Glory if the PK isn't *acting* chivalrous, and always ensure that they have chances to demonstrate their being a Chivalric Knight during RP.