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View Full Version : Contemplating a different way to do manors and economics.



Gretik
03-16-2013, 05:27 PM
I've got a game coming up that is going to be done online and will have a fair few players, only some of whom will likely be interested in doing much in the way of managing manors. While the book of the manor is a great read and full of cool ideas, it will probably be too slow for what we need, so I thought I'd have a bash at writing an abridged method of calculating earnings.

The key things I've gone for are speed and simplicity, while still allowing for players who want to tend to their demesnes the opportunity. Hopefully, it should also still result in some cool roleplay.

Every manor, be it near a village, town or city, has a wealth, glory and defensive score.
The peasants or towns people of that manor will have a hate (landlord) passion.
If there are any vassal knights in residence, they will have a loyalty (lord) passion as well as an 'expected standard of living', i.e., poor, standard, rich or superlative.

During the economic circumstances phase, the player rolls the stewardship skill for each of his or her manors stewards, modified for the weather, banditry, war and the like.

On a fumble, a manor produces only 1/4 of it's normal wealth.
On a fail, a manor produces only 1/2 of it's normal wealth.
On a success, a manor produces it's normal wealth.
On a critical success, a manor produces 1.5 times it's normal wealth.

The player then must determine how richly they and their vassal knights will be living, subtracting the requisite amount from the wealth generated.
If a vassal knight and his family are forced to live at a standard of living lower than they are used to, their loyalty (lord) passion is reduced by 1.

The player (or the GM on the behalf of his vassals) can choose to 'squeeze' the peasants, granting an additional £1d6.
Squeezing can be done up to 3 times a year, with all of the checks to personality traits as outlined in book of the manor.
This increases the hate (landlord) passion of the peasants at any manors 'squeezed' by 2.

If the player voluntarily reduces the level of wealth he and or his vassals (GM's discretion) receive, the hate (landlord) passion is reduced by 1 per level of wealth.

I haven't quite worked out how I'll use hate (landlord yet). (Lowering it is reasonably well covered in book of the manor, though.)

During bad years, this means the players must do a balancing act between their vassals and their peasants needs.
(Especially since knights can inspire their loyalty (lord) in battle, surely that's more useful than the standard of living of a few paltry peasants?)

For those players who want to improve their manor(s), they must spend their winter phase cajoling peasants, safeguarding caravans of supplies and generally making sure things get done.

It costs a number of pounds equal to the current wealth, glory or defensive value score to increase that score by 1.
A knight who wishes to increase his manors in such a way must decide what they are trying to build, which is where the book of the manor comes in as a source for inspiration.
That gets role-played out as the players winter phase scenario, with whatever skill rolls the GM feels are necessary.

I think I'll stick with the cataclysm/calamity rules from book of the manor, because they're cool and slot in more or less seamlessly.

(It's worth pointing out that by the time the players earn manors in my 410AD game, things will likely be very bad all over the country, but most knights will have become accustomed to a poor standard of living. It'll take a period of peace for them to begin to get used to the creature comforts.)

Greg Stafford
03-16-2013, 05:30 PM
I think you'll like ESTATE

Gretik
03-17-2013, 06:35 AM
Updated and into a pdf format, hope this whole linky google-docs thing works!

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4AVGKzO7LM9WlRiZVZIVGNQQkE/edit?usp=sharing

Updated again to put some conflict stuff in. And again to tweak the conflict stuff to need slightly fewer rolls.

captainhedges
04-02-2013, 07:31 PM
Hey I did try your revised doc I found it very useful and was able to calculate most of my manors for my main characters and my players in about 30 minutes so I am ingratiating it into my system if that's ok with you just thought I would let you know, I found it very useful.

Gretik
04-07-2013, 08:57 PM
Cool, glad it could help. The player knights in my game don't yet have manors of their own, so ironically you've tested it out before I have!
Please, if you find any holes or things you end up house ruling/abridging/adding for ease, I'd love to hear them since I'd likely end up having to do the same if they're big changes.

[Edit] Actually, having gone back and checked, I'd written up a neater version after one of my players had trouble following what I meant.

I don't think any of the rules in it changed much, but to be honest, they were mostly all stole... I mean... Inventively borrowed... From other KAP books anway, then mashed together.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4AVGKzO7LM9WnBxTWhHTXRoeU0/edit?usp=sharing

captainhedges
04-07-2013, 09:27 PM
Ya I saw your mesh and understood it lol! and nope that is the one I used and printed so you must have made the changes before i used it I would keep it as is its a keeper for me as is for now but if I do run into problems will let you know.

captainhedges
04-07-2013, 09:50 PM
I think you'll like ESTATE

I hope so I have had to over the years do the following and I emailed you a copy greg dont know if you ever got it. If not i can resend it but will do a quick summery here.

Rationale
I needed, for my own purposes, a system that let me know what went where and how big it was. Moreover, I wanted more reasons to spend NPC/PC money, and needed it in a system that was relatively easy for me to grasp. So, I did some research, and hybridized elements of Lordly Domains and Noble's Book.
While not mentioned, each ring of wall or major building also takes 1 hyde, and adds to the space taken by the town/city.

Measurement Standards
Traditional English Mile
5000feet. A square mile is 574 acres... but... this is not the only mile in use.
Statute Mile
5280 Feet. A square mile is 640 acres.
Old English Mile
About 6500 feet. A square mile is about 970 acres.
Roman Mile
About 4850 modern feet (5000 Roman Feet). Squared, about 540 acres
Scots Mile
Roughly 5928 modern feet. Squared, about 807 Acres.<
Hyde
roughly 100 acres. If using Roman or Traditional English, 5 hydes per square mile; if using Old English Miles, 9 per square mile. Scots miles, 8 per square mile. Modern Statute Miles, 6 per square mile.
Day's Ride
For our purposes, 40 miles give or take a couple. It is important in defining the demense... A demense must be no further than a day's ride from the Lord's Manor (Unless he is high titled nobility... Which means quite a lot, potentially) In both lands and title.
Detail Scale
Use ⅕ statute mile squares. Each square is 0.04 square miles, and so 4 squares per hyde works nicely.
Up to half of the land may be left fallow in bad terrain...
Close Scale
Use 1 mile squares. A village is a dot, except for Herding villages, which are a square; a town or city is 1 square per 6 hydes.
And a Castle is roughly 32 to 64 Hyde s depending on lay out and size ie small, medium or large.