Hi all. This is something I threw together whilst we were playing the Cambrian War scenario to give the player characters a bit more influence in the battles. Granted, it is still heavily based on the battle system in the rulebook and influenced by the battle system in the Beyond the Wall supplement, too. Nor do I claim by any means that it is perfect.

It was intended mainly for a relatively small scale battles, a few hundred men per side, with PKs being rather high-profile in the army, commanders or at least champions. In a larger battle, I would see the influence of heroes realistically mattering less, although in Mallory, the heroic individual charges seem to carry the day more often than not.

As luck happens, I didn't actually get to test the system in game, as the PK army ended up being outmaneuvered and outnumbered due to some poor choices and bad luck with dice, the modifiers stacking up ominously enough that the PKs opted for a 'negotiated solution' (i.e. a surrender in all but name). If you do use this system in your campaign's battles, I'd love to hear about how it worked!

PC = Player Character

Running the Battle:

1) Calculate the modifiers from one party outnumbering the other, fighting in an advantageous position (1d6 modifier based on the winner of pre-battle maneuvering roll?) and/or quality bonus (although I think that is already calculated in the knight value, mostly).
- I would not use the homeland modifier, as the +-10 modifier is way too big. It is equal to 5:1 odds! +-5 might be more reasonable and even that is a bit iffy to my mind, unless it is really an ambush that can benefit from the local terrain knowledge (maybe use it as a bonus for the maneuvering?) or if it is the last ditch defense of hearth and home and the soldiers' families and represents the fact that they fight harder as the result.

2) General tactics: PC army commander's Battle+modifiers vs. Enemy Battle+modifiers.
- How well the armies are guided on the field and the first clash. After that, it is the battalion commanders who will try to crack the enemy counterpart.
PC\Enemy Crit Succ Fail Fumble
Crit +-1 +3 +6 +10
Succ -3 +-1 +3 +6
Fail -6 -3 0 +3
Fumb -10 -6 -3 0
- Draw = 0, of course
- Succ/Succ = +1 if PC win, -1 if PC partial success (double crits cancel one another as per our houserule and is treated as normal successes where skill 21+ may give a 'better' critical: 20+1)
- At +5/-5 the players' get that as an additional modifier to their Battle, as enemies flee/press on.
- At +-10 the losing side routs. Pursuit and chase may be possible, depending on the time of the day.

3) Round per round:
a) Keep track of each battalion separately: van (right), center, rearguard (left). Roll Battle of the battalion commander vs. enemy battalion commander's Battle. Battle modifiers apply.
PC\Enemy Crit Succ Fail Fumble
Crit 0 +2 +4 +6
Succ -2 +-1 +2 +4
Fail -4 -2 0 +2
Fumb -6 -4 -2 0
- If a flank/center routs, the other battalions get instantly -3 to their situation, as morale cracks. Furthermore, if the victorious battalion commander succeeds in (Battle-10) roll, he manages to keep control of his battalion and lead them in a flank charge against the neighboring enemy battalion. Roll a quick contest of Battles between the outflanking commander and the outflanked commander. If the outflank is successful, additional +5 to Battle for the two cooperating battalion commanders and -5 to the outflanked battalion commander's skill. This may ALSO change the relative troop strength levels -> modifiers to the Battle roll. For example, equal battalions fight it out. One enemy battalion routs, allowing two battalions gang up on one enemy battalion. Assuming that the enemy commander managed to shore up his lines against the outflanking attack and the morale of his troops is still high (both pretty unlikely, admittedly), then he would still be outnumbered 2:1 and suffer -5 reflexive modifier (+5 to the outnumbering two battalion commander's Battle).
- Frankly, if one flank routs, that Army commander might try to organize a fighting withdrawal. I'd say additional +-5 reflexive modifier (-5 for the retreating one) and a contest of Battle skills between Army commanders: On a success, he manages to pull his army back, on a partial success, the fight continues normally, on a failure his army breaks and routs.

b) PC Unit roll
- As per usual rules, Successful Battle lets the PK unit to pick the target. (If the battle is small enough, the battalion roll is also a unit roll.)
- Of course, on a Crit battle, the PCs would get a chance to get at the enemy commander. If they win that skirmish, they give -3 to the enemy battalion, as well as probably cause a shift to a poorer general (-3 to skill). This can be decisive. See below for End Game for enemy commanders.
- PC Heroics: If the round is 'positive' (i.e. most PKs win their melee rolls), give +1 to PC side; if 'negative' (i.e. most PKs lose their melee rolls), give -1. If the round is exceptionally one way or the other (multiple crits or fumbles), even +-2 or +-3 could happen. Another possibility here is that the PCs could go for high-value, high-skill targets, in which case the success might give a better bonus (+2?), but at the greater risk of failure. Enemy commander should be reserved for the critical battle rolls or do or die final charges, see below. Or they could go against rabble and be almost certain to win, but at the risk of 'wasting' their chance to improve the situation.
- After 6 rounds: The night is starting to fall. If it is an even situation (i.e. +-4 or less), both armies would start breaking contact by common consent, otherwise roll Battle (modified by darkness, not anything else) to be able to continue for two more rounds with -5 and then -10 to Skills. (This particular battle duration was decided thusly. Another battle may have more/less time before nightfall, and this also could be one of the issues influenced by the PKs.)

4) End Game:
- If one enemy battalion is reduced to -5 or worse, its commander tries a glorious duel option: challenging his opposing commander to a duel. Honor check if accept. If not accepted, then on a success or partial success on the enemy battle roll, the enemy commander manages to hack his way to duel with the PC anyway. If he Fumbles or if the Fail is enough to make his side rout, he is killed or captured in the attempt.
- Note that the battle for which this system was crafted, the situation was pretty desperate last ditch battle for the enemy. All or nothing. In a more 'relaxed' situation, this might be a good point for an attempt to retreat.

5) Casualties:
- Losing side suffers about 10% + 2% casualties * final modifier + 5% for each round of the day left to pursue if they rout.
- Winning side suffers about 5% casualties + (10 - loser mod/2)
- The above are of course guidelines.

6) Loot & Glory
- If PCs win decisively, the Loot is about X (depending on the size and wealth of the enemy army). Indecisive victory nets about third of this number, as most of the enemy and their baggage gets away.
- The example was a Small Battle, so 15 Glory / Round, x2 for a decisive victory if applicable (x0.5 if decisively lost) and x2 for being outnumbered if applicable.
- I would also modify the per round Glory based on the enemies the PKs fought against in each round: easy rabble x0.5, normal foes x1 and tough, high-skill foes x2.


EDIT (way later):
One of the dangers of writing something for one's own use and then just throwing it up on the Forum is that some things are left inadequately explained.

The bonuses and minuses in the Army Commander's and Battalion Commanders' rolls are the Army Situation modifiers, a way to keep track on how battle is going. The number applies to the PK's side, and the opposite number applies to the opponent's side, on the Battle rolls. I see that in the thread I was advocating waiting until +-5 to give it as a bonus, but later I suggest giving it straight away. Either way would work, waiting for +-5 would make it more even, while +-X would let the PKs to start reaping the benefits of their actions sooner.

Note that this was meant for a relatively small army, with a PK at the leadership seat. If it is a bigger battle, I could see simply increasing the limit to -10 for retreat and -20 for rout (matching Book of Battle quite closely in that regard), and halve the bonuses. Why do it this way? Well, it is a big battle with bigger armies, so there will be less sudden reversals and more reserves to help to keep the fight going. So it is less likely to be decided on one roll.

To bad you didnt get to use this :-[, I like it as I was thinking about tinkering with the battle system to let the PKs influence battle's more.

I want to see if I understand it all correctly

1. modifiers to Army commanders rolls, homeland modifier is +5 only

2. Army Commander Battle roll, +10 to -10 is this the new Battle Intesity? Army commander rolls only once at beginning of battle?

3. Battalion Commanders roll every round and are tracked independantly. Are the results to apply to Battle intensity (army roll) or unit intensity? (battle rolls for the Battalion leaders)

- As per usual rules, Successful Battle lets the PK unit to pick the target. (If the battle is small enough, the battalion roll is also a unit roll.)

I am not familiar with these rules in BoB, can they pick any unit on the list of 20 in book of armies?

Does the Pk win of +1 apply to Battalion tracking or is to overall Battle Intensity set by the army commanders roll?

5) Casualties:
- Losing side suffers about 10% + 2% casualties * final modifier + 5% for each round of the day left to pursue if they rout.
- Winning side suffers about 5% casualties + (10 - loser mod/2)
- The above are of course guidelines

What is the final modifer, multiplier? Wouldnt they always be -10 or -5 withdrawel?

:D Thanks for posting this!

1. modifiers to Army commanders rolls, homeland modifier is +5 only


Correct, and I am not sure I would apply even that modifier unless it was a real home and hearth question or perhaps applying it for the pre-battle maneuvering roll to reflect local terrain knowledge.



2. Army Commander Battle roll, +10 to -10 is this the new Battle Intesity? Army commander rolls only once at beginning of battle?


Let me start by saying that I do not own BoB or BoBII, so all this talk of Battle Intensity is familiar to me only from little snippets I have seen on this Forum. That being said, assuming I understand the Battle Intensity correctly, yes, the Army Situation modifier is similar. It tracks how well the battle is going.

The Army commander rolls only once in this case. After that, he will take over as a battalion commander of one of the battalions and lead from the front as God intended. None of this pussy-footing around in the back of the battle! :)

The Army Commander's roll gives the initial impact of the tactics and positioning, seeing how well he managed to take advantage of the situation. The result will go on to the Battalion Situation as is.

Example: Our Army Commander rolls a success vs. Enemy Army Commander's failure. Hence, our battalions start with +3. Since the situation is always reflexive, this means the enemy battalions start with -3. This is a big advantage, of course and doesn't always happen. Outnumbering the enemy and fighting with a terrain advantage helps a lot, though!



3. Battalion Commanders roll every round and are tracked independantly. Are the results to apply to Battle intensity (army roll) or unit intensity? (battle rolls for the Battalion leaders)


As said in the above, the Army Situation becomes the Battalion Situation, and these are then tracked independently for each battalion. It is possible for one enemy battalion to rout our left flank while our right flank is trashing their opposing battalion.

The Final Army Situation then becomes the average of the Battalion Situations, which is of course obvious if all the losing battalions ended up routing. I'd say that if you manage to rout two of the third battalions, it is already a quite decisive victory, even if one enemy battalion manages to retreat in some semblance of order.



- As per usual rules, Successful Battle lets the PK unit to pick the target. (If the battle is small enough, the battalion roll is also a unit roll.)

I am not familiar with these rules in BoB, can they pick any unit on the list of 20 in book of armies?

Does the Pk win of +1 apply to Battalion tracking or is to overall Battle Intensity set by the army commanders roll?


I would let the PKs select the general enemy type, like:
1) Attack that group of formed spearmen who look like they know what they are doing
2) Attack that rabble of peasants hovering on one flank
3) Attack the group of enemy knights over there preparing to charge us
4) Attack that group of knights clustered around the enemy standard

The available enemy categories of course depend on the battle and the GM. If you wanted to make it a bit more controlled, you could also guide the players to try to take advantage of enemy errors or to cover their own commander's errors. Such as:
1) Enemy Battalion commander fails his roll: the enemy archers are too far forward! Charge in and butcher them, giving your side an advantage!
2) Your commander fails: Enemy knight are preparing to charge your spearmen's flank! Are you going to let them or charge the enemy knights and hope to tie them up while your idiot commander tries to salvage the situation?

While this would make it a bit more controlled, it also limits the player choice option, which is something I dislike. I mean, why wouldn't you do something to fix the situation? Hmm, one additional option would be to put the PK heroics behind that Unit Commander roll. If you fail in that, you won't get to do the heroics as you cannot exploit the openings and are instead slammed by the enemy plans. But that might make things a bit too harsh. Worthy of further discussion?

The PK win/lose will only influence their Battalion Situation. You can have PKs in different Battalions, though. So if PKs 1 & 2 are in Battalion 1, their result modify Battalion 1's situation, and PKs 3 & 4 in Battalion 2, modify Battalion 2's situation. The Army Situation no longer matters, since it has evolved with the individual battalion results already.

I also tend to let the PKs gain prisoners on a critical melee roll. The type of captive would depend on the enemy type they fought in that round, which should encourage them to go after enemy knights.



5) Casualties:
- Losing side suffers about 10% + 2% casualties * final modifier + 5% for each round of the day left to pursue if they rout.
- Winning side suffers about 5% casualties + (10 - loser mod/2)
- The above are of course guidelines

What is the final modifer, multiplier? Wouldnt they always be -10 or -5 withdrawel?


Not necessarily. The enemy could fight on until the end of the day, and the fight could end with whatever modifier from 0 to -9. Or even -10 if they crack at the very end.

I wanted to keep the calculation rather simple and to follow the principle that most of the casualties would be at the routing phase. There is still an oddity that with a 0-0 result the 'winner' gets more casualties. I probably should take that 5% baseline off and just make it 10-(mod/2) percent, so 5% on a great win, 10% on a draw.

Now, one way to represent a grindfest would be to add +1% / round to the casualties. This would inflate the casualties of a long-drawn battle which makes sense, but wouldn't explode the loser casualties to an unreasonable degree. Especially since I'd eliminate that 5% off top.

Thus, a bloody 10-round draw would be 20% casualties to each, while a 10-round routing (Situation +-10) but no-pursuit battle would end up with 15% and 40% casualties. Sounds reasonable enough. Note that Casualties does not mean Dead, but Dead+Wounded+Missing+Captured.



:D Thanks for posting this!


You are quite welcome. Further questions/comments/critique welcome, too. :)