Are there any custom or old rules regarding the Bohort, the Melee or Animal fights?

I'm going all out on the wedding tournament and couldn't find any solid rules except regular combat for melee.

As I would use them:

Bohort: This is a bit of a free for all. Of course groups can protect each other, but in the end it is just everyone against each other. I would play this out as combat, but with others interjecting at random moments.
Melee: This is knights showing of their value so this is a bit more 'civilized'. Knights will appoint unit and army leaders. So I would play this out as a normal battle, except that all damage is non lethal.
Animal fights: This is either two animals fighting each other and is just a combat. Not sure how I would do it: either have two players each roll for one of the animals or play this out beforehand and use it as a narrative. If a PK wants to fight an animal I would use the normal combat rules.

Buhurt (bouhourt in French) was originally the Middle High German for the event that we call Melee in Pendragon.

In Pendragon, Bohort is defined as a rough and tumble fight for NON-KNIGHTS. So I would not bother to game it in Pendragon, unless I happened to have a group of squires as player characters. If so, I'd run it as basically a big brawl, last man standing, using non-lethal but bruising damage. As in, count damage from fists normally, falling unconscious at the unconscious limit, but then let them sleep the damage off, like healing the weekly amount in an hour or something.

Melee I would do like Cornelius, if I wanted to do it in detail. Nowadays, we are just abstracting it with one roll, although I could see arguments for a middle ground doing a couple of rolls instead. Something to think about.

Animal fights, as Cornelius says, is mainly two animals against each other, and as such, I wouldn't bother to roll it. If it is a man against a beast, then I would roll it, but again only if it is a PK against the beast. Normal combat in that case, perhaps with some additional limitations for the beast. Such as, a chained bear vs. a spearman might get -5/+5 for the spearman's benefit.

To my knowledge, there are no such rules.

I've nerver really understood what to make of the bohord and the animal fight. I think I have let squires do astounding deeds fo arms at bohords, or been beaten and captured - for some roleplaying. The animal fight seems to be a good chance for some betting. You can search my Blood-Lust "manuscript", I think you might find one or two ideas there.

As for meele, never in my whole life that I would use a time-waster as the BoB in a Melee, just so that my PKs can get a few dozen Glory. I use the quick system - or something free-form.

Thanks for all the good input!

Bohort: I wish to play the Bohort sort of like "play" versions of real battles. Commoners, squires and in some cases soldiers are used to "re-enact" real battles from earlier periods. Perhaps in a battle where the player knights of an earlier period did good, it could be fun to watch. Also, it would be a good way to "remember to the good ol' days". These fights would often be set to go one way or another (you don't want the saxons to win....). So perhaps squires in padded armour and rebated weapons (representing knights) charge against dirty commoners with sticks (representing saxons).

Melee: I want the melee to be an interesting event, and to get people used to the jousting that will show up later. I want it to resemble a real battle, but no where near the same time it takes to play a real battle.

Animal fights: I feel this is an underestimated event, and it could be used to get some extra glory and as a way to show of strange and wonderous animals that are found in Britain in the enchanted periods.

My current ideas:

1. Bohort (If players squire wants to take part, otherwise just watch and cheer)
Lighting fast: Roll for squire. Result indicates they did some good, crit means they did great.
Quick: Players roll for their squires in a quick series of "tournament" rounds.
Detailed: Players roll for squires like in normal combat. They "become" the squire for a scene.

2. Melee
Quick: Roll battle and lance.
Detailed: I'll probably use a modified version of the skirmish-rules.

3. Animal fights
Quick: Watch and cheer.
Detailed: Each knight may choose to "sponsor" an animal in a cage. Each animal has an arbitrarily set number. If a player wishes to "sponsor" an animal, he pays a price. The animal then takes part in a quick version of tournament. If it succeeds, the sponsor gets some glory (but no gold return, knights don't gamble). Note that sometimes barbarians or other people might count in animal fights.

Animal score:
Vicious rat = 1
Huge snake = 5
A rabid dog = 10
Large wolf =13
Bear = 19
Ogre/troll = 20
Lion = 23
Tyger = 25
Griffin = 28
Small Giant = 30
Elephant = 35
Wyrm = 40

People score:
Naked foreigner = 5
Black-skinned barbarians = 10
Pictish prisoners = 12
Irish prisoners = 13
Old "gladiator" = 15
Veteran soldier in debt = 18

People score:
Naked foreigner = 5
Black-skinned barbarians = 10
Pictish prisoners = 12
Irish prisoners = 13
Old "gladiator" = 15
Veteran soldier in debt = 18


Just to comment quickly... I don't know what these scores are supposed to represent? Skill levels, perhaps? That is not my main thrust of the argument. Foreigners, especially exotic ones like black-skinned barbarians from Africa, would be very very uncommon in Britain. Probably too uncommon to be 'wasted' in entertainment like this. Also, foreigners are more likely traders or at least seamen, and also rarer. Saxons prisoners would be more common, and most common would be Cymric criminals. Not sure how the Church would like making it a judicial execution, though, so I would actually expect more in the way of a modern bullfights today: volunteers (professionals even) fighting against the animals, rather than the Roman way of executing criminals with lions and tigers and bears, oh my. More like the hunting events, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venatio .

The last Gladiatorial game in Rome was in 404, almost a century before the Pendragon era. Not that it needs to stop anyone who wishes to put that into their game...

Yea, I pulled them out of my old behind. :) And yes, the numbers represent skill, or rather, an arbitrary number of how dangerous they are. It was/is a quick system I just thought of on the spot. What I was aiming for was to give the animal fight a bit more excitement than "you watch some animals fight..... next day....". I'm happy for any input/ideas.

I'd perhaps us some of these "blood-sports" during the anarchy. When there is no rule or order, who knows what some of the less scrupulous lords do? Besides, roman slaves still exist in the earlier periods (according to book of warlords, but I may be wrong). At least until Arthur gets rid of them and makes them serfs.

Updated list. To represent a more volunteer system. Personally, I still like the fact that it is a bit of a blood sport in the early era, and as Arthurs reign solidifies he changes this. In later periods, the sport is probably lost all together. I think I'll use prisoners and the "gladiatorial" system in boy-king era, an I'll show that Arthur really does not like it. Perhaps he even strikes up a conversation with a passing player knight... and asks them what they think of this Barbary?

Early period "Volunteers:"
Naked outlaws = 5
Screaming wrongdoers = 7
Malevolent murderers = 9
Saxon prisoners = 12
Professional animal-killers = 14
Old "gladiator" = 16
Veteran soldier in debt = 18
Famous hunter-killer = 20+
Foreigners = *

Conquest/tournament period warriors
Volunteer animal-beaters = 5-10
Veteran animal-killers = 5-10
Professional animal-slayers: 11-19
Famous hunter-killer:20+

Updated list. To represent a more volunteer system. Personally, I still like the fact that it is a bit of a blood sport in the early era, and as Arthurs reign solidifies he changes this. In later periods, the sport is probably lost all together. I think I'll use prisoners and the "gladiatorial" system in boy-king era, an I'll show that Arthur really does not like it. Perhaps he even strikes up a conversation with a passing player knight... and asks them what they think of this Barbary?


Much better (in my not-so-humble opinion :) )!

You can even mix things up a bit; having women as the condemned would be sure to tug the heart-strings of more chivalric knights. Prisoners and criminals being executed by beasts would be 'de rigour' in Uther's time and continue throughout the Anarchy. Perhaps the PKs get to be on the 'volunteer' side thanks to some unscrupulous petty usurper; having heros fight monsters is a literary trope, after all.

And then you have Arthur. You could even have the animal fights before the tournament of the sword in 510, and players get to see this young squire's face harden with determination, perhaps even have to be physically stopped by his father and brother from jumping into the arena to defend the condemned women (claimed witches, murderesses?) from a pack of wolves? And once he ascends to the throne, one of the first rules of the business is that this thing stops. That might indeed be one of the central points of the High Justice: since Arthur and the judges he appoints are the only one who can hand out a death penalty, you no longer have situations where people get condemned to the arena to be rendered limb from limb by wild beasts. And Arthur can make his displeasure known during the Boy King period that he intends this ruling to stick.

I am going to 'steal' the above for my campaign. :P

Changing your table slightly...

Early period "Volunteers:"
(Stats assume a class-appropriate weapon & armor. For instance, whimpering women might have broom-handles or knives to defend themselves, while the professional animal-killers would have armor and long spears or shield and spear. If unarmed, halve the skill.)
Whimpering women = 2
Pitiful peasants = 4
Trembling thieves = 6
Brash bandits = 8
Malevolent murderers = 10
Savage saxons = 12
Professional animal-killers = 14
Old "gladiator" = 16
Veteran soldier in debt = 18
Famous hunter-killer = 20+
Foreigners = *

Animal score:
Pack of vicious rats = 1
Starved/rabid stray dog = 4
Starved/rabid large dog = 8
Wolf =12
Bear or Bull = 15
Panther = 18
Boar = 12-20 (depending on size, 20 is the rulebook's killer 6d6 boar, 12 would be like a 'small' 4d6 one)
Small Giant = 22
Lion = 25
Griffin = 28
Standard Giant = 30
Elephant = 35
Wyrm = 40

This might be doing a bit of disservice to the Bear, but I am basing my ranking on the deadliness of the beastie based on Pendragon stats. Also, the Bears of Pendragon are not the huge Grizzlies. Lion is a terror, truly the king of animals, and would shred a small giant in a duel. I downgraded Bull a bit, since obviously, bull-fighting does happen in normal life and usually doesn't involve a dead matador.

Odds:
Each doubling of the contestants gives a bonus equal to the 'skill', up to a maximum of +5.
So 2 women would be 4, 4 women 6, 8 = 8, 16 = 10, 32 = 12, 64 = 14. This pretty much ensures that the bigger monsters will go through the women without too much trouble, while the women scream and scatter. Same is true for unarmed pitiful peasants: they don't really have the strength to harm, say, a bull or a bear.

We're getting somewhere! I'm going to use that women event during next session... Thank you! It seems good way for a player with chivalry to act out. (might even hint that not doing something is on the verge of braking an the Chivalric oath...). This is the tournament of 514 by the way, so it's the real first tournament of my campaign where Arthur is king. He hasn't been involved in planning the event, and when he watches it he will be upset. When the women enters, he will be furious. (He might even reward a player knight that jumps in to defend the women, even if it is interrupting the event). By the way, I like your table best.

What about glory awards?

It shouldn't be too much, especially not compared to Melee or the eventual Joust. But still, if your animals wins the entire tournament event of the grand wedding tournament or similar it should definitely be worthy of notice. Maybe one third of the glory of a main event?

I say that you use the main tournament rules of pendragon if you have the time (it's not THAT slow).

1. Early morning (or the day before it its a big event). The animals and prisoners are presented in cages. Knights, nobles and curious commoners flock to watch. The knights choose the most noble of beasts to sponsor... the commoners take bets.
2. Fights. The players that choose to sponsor a beast (or even bring their own?) roll for their animal. GM or another player rolls the opponents skill. the opponents "beast-skill" is equal to X+1 for each round. X is simply a representation of how dangerous the beasts at this event is. A unseelie court could be 15 (mysterious beasts and monsters), and a simple animal-game in a village 1 (dogs and pigs). A regular tournament event? 5-10. A table can be made if you want more flavor for the animals.
3. If any player-beast remains after Y rounds (depending on the size of the tournament, se GPC). Three final rounds are played, just like in a tournament. The winner gets 1/3 (?) of the glory from winning a melee or joust. The three last events should be special monsters (perhaps sponsored by big old-school knights such as Cador, Brastias or Ulfius.)

What about glory awards?

It shouldn't be too much, especially not compared to Melee or the eventual Joust. But still, if your animals wins the entire tournament event of the grand wedding tournament or similar it should definitely be worthy of notice. Maybe one third of the glory of a main event?


Glory award should be minuscule for simply delivering the animal for the contest. At best, it is Outrageous Consumption that you can see in p. 48 of Book of the Estate: £10 (20 Glory) is for organizing a lavish beast hunt, which is a good analogue to what you are proposing here. Just delivering one animal, unless it is something very rare/mythical, would be worth maybe a few points of Glory, at best, I'd say. Bull seems to be roughly £1 (GPC, p. 229), so that would be worth 2 points of Glory.

Knights gain Glory for what they do, not what their underlings or belongings do.



1. Early morning (or the day before it its a big event). The animals and prisoners are presented in cages. Knights, nobles and curious commoners flock to watch. The knights choose the most noble of beasts to sponsor... the commoners take bets.


This spoils the surprise, though. I think it would be more poignant to send the prisoners to the arena, and then declare that they will fight against such and such beasts... Bets, if you please! And then release the beasts.



2. Fights. The players that choose to sponsor a beast (or even bring their own?) roll for their animal. GM or another player rolls the opponents skill. the opponents "beast-skill" is equal to X+1 for each round. X is simply a representation of how dangerous the beasts at this event is. A unseelie court could be 15 (mysterious beasts and monsters), and a simple animal-game in a village 1 (dogs and pigs). A regular tournament event? 5-10. A table can be made if you want more flavor for the animals.


You are of course free to do it as you like... Me, I'd decide the 'main event' that I wish to showcase, roll a quick contest and be done with it. Who cares what happens with pigs and dogs if there is a giant fighting a dragon, right?



3. If any player-beast remains after Y rounds (depending on the size of the tournament, se GPC). Three final rounds are played, just like in a tournament. The winner gets 1/3 (?) of the glory from winning a melee or joust. The three last events should be special monsters (perhaps sponsored by big old-school knights such as Cador, Brastias or Ulfius.)


Way too much work, for me. My players are getting bored even when it is another PK jousting. Remember that if you have 5 players, each with a Sir Beasty or some such, you might end up wasting quite a lot of time for very little benefit. Easier to simply roll once. If the Sir Beasty crits, then go to the finals, otherwise Sir Beasty is served at the feast.

Furthermore, damage would be much much more common in these 'Beast Tournaments' than with jousting that you are modelling it after. Even one Bull vs. Bear contest would be likely to leave the winner reeling from the wounds, too, making it unlikely in extreme that the winner would survive the next round against a fresh opponent. I -think- that in cock- & dogfighting contests, it was usually one fight per pair, and then the winner had weeks to rest and heal before the next match. It wasn't dozen rounds. So I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn't use Jousting as an example, but Challenges/Duels. Interesting pair-ups between almost equals or gristly spectacles (criminal executions). Like I already stated earlier.

Finally, animals don't get Glory, and the knights don't get Glory for the actions of others. Most definitely they wouldn't be getting huge amounts of Glory. Use Outrageous Consumption: that is a good rule for these occasions, in my opinion.