I have some reservations about the KAP 5.1 Glory calculation system for combat, and as such, I have been using the 4th edition system (whilst eyeballing the approximate Glory I feel the fight is worthy).

As for KAP 5.1 glory award calculation, I don't think it fully captures the difference in skill between a Sword 15 knight and a Sword 20 knight, for instance. Or, to take a more extreme example... A knight with Horsemanship 15, Lance 15 and Sword 15, with the combat starting with lances on horseback, brings a base of 45 Glory + 1% of his Glory. This is reasonable for not quite a beginner, but still, nothing extraordinary, so lets say Glory 1500, for a total of 60 points. Against a starting PK with similar skills, this should be, more or less, a 50/50 proposition.

By contrast, we can have a knight with Sword 25 and Glory 5000 (a bit of an extreme case, I admit) fighting on foot, and his total would be 75 Glory, a mere 25% difference. But I guarantee that this guy would be hell for a Sword 15 starting PK to take down. Even if we give this knight 9500 Glory (more reasonable Glory for his high skill), for a total Glory of 120, or double the skill 15 opponent, I am still not convinced that this represents the true difficulty of defeating him.

Finally, you can have a 10000 Glory knight with Sword 20, being worth the same 120 as the Sword 25 and Glory 9500 knight. Or, to make the reductio ad absurdum argument, Sword 30 and Glory 9000 knight, who'd go through a Sword 15 PK in one or two strokes of the sword.

I am toying with an idea of 'fixing' this with something like:
Skill up to 15: Glory = Skill
Skill 16-20: Glory = 15 + (skill-15)*5, so 16 = 20, 17 = 25, 18 = 30, 19 = 35, 20 = 40.
Skill 21+: Glory = 40 + (skill-20)*20, so 21 = 60, and so forth, with 24 = 100.

Base this on the highest Skill of the opponent, and then simply add a multiplier depending on the situation. Such as, you have the advantage (mounted vs. unmounted) = x0.5, you have the disadvantage (unmounted vs. mounted) = x2 (might be tempted to cap this at +100, since otherwise the high skill opponents become way too Glorious to defeat). I see no reason to give 'triple skill glory' simply because both you and your opponent are on horseback holding lances. Or even worse, adding Sword Glory because your opponent's lance happens to break and he has to switch to an inferior weapon on horseback!

As for Glory, I'd be tempted to just add the 'middle point' of the Glory bracket, so for instance, a Respected knight (2000 - 2999; BotW, p. 157) would add 25 Glory to the skill Glory. This frees me from calculating the EXACT Glory, and for most enemies, it is simply a maximum of 5 Glory difference anyway. For Famous, I might use 10000 as my benchmark for a nice 100 round number.

In the above examples, this would lead to:
Skill 15, Glory 1500: 30 Glory, even on horseback (assuming you are, too, or 60 if you are on foot).
Skill 20, Glory 1500: 55 Glory (seems about right, Skill 20 is much tougher opponent than skill 15)
Skill 20, Glory 10000: 140 Glory (as tough an enemy as the above... getting an effective x2.5 multiplier from Glory alone is starting to feel a bit excessive)
Skill 25, Glory 9500: 220 Glory (Skill 25 is tough)
Skill 30, Glory 9000: 320 Glory (he'd better be worth some serious Glory, this guy is amongst the top named RTKs in skill!)

Of course, you will run into a small problem of what to do about a guy who gets Impassioned? Surely that should be worth some extra Glory? On the other hand, the PK might get Impassioned as well, and either rack up an 'easy' win or at least becomes equal again. So I am a bit wishy washy about that. I might be tempted to add a flat +50 Glory for Impassioned combat. +100 Glory might be a bit too much, given the above caveats.

An alternative would be to up the Skill Glory a bit more:
Skill up to 15: Skill x 2
Skill 16 - 19: +5 Glory per skill point over 15; 16 = 35, 17 = 40, 18 = 45, 19 = 50.
Skill 20: +10 Glory -> 60.
Skill 21+: +20 Glory per point over 20; 21 = 80, 22 = 100.

This would lead to:
Skill 15, Glory 1500: 45 Glory
Skill 20, Glory 1500: 75 Glory
Skill 20, Glory 10000: 160 Glory
Skill 25, Glory 9500: 260 Glory
Skill 30, Glory 9000: 360 Glory

On the final analysis, I am not sure I'd bother! I am currently using basically the 4th edition Glory Awards, and I am eyeballing the skill of the (knightly, or knight-level like a berserker) opponent...
Skill around 15: 50 Glory.
Skill around 18: 75 Glory.
Skill around 20: 100 Glory.
Skill over 20: 150, 200, 250, depending how much over.
If the opponent is especially strong (berserkers), go up a level.
If the opponent is especially Glorious, go up a level (or two).
If the fight is with real weapons, but without significant risk of death or capture/ransom (such as a duel of honor), halve the Glory. (Deaths and Major Wounds still tend to happen, which doesn't make this risk free in the slightest. But the stakes are somewhat less than in a real situation, hence Glory is less.)

This one seems to work nicely for me and our group.

On the final analysis, I am not sure I'd bother! I am currently using basically the 4th edition Glory Awards, and I am eyeballing the skill of the (knightly, or knight-level like a berserker) opponent...
Skill around 15: 50 Glory.
Skill around 18: 75 Glory.
Skill around 20: 100 Glory.
Skill over 20: 150, 200, 250, depending how much over.
If the opponent is especially strong (berserkers), go up a level.
If the opponent is especially Glorious, go up a level (or two).
If the fight is with real weapons, but without significant risk of death or capture/ransom (such as a duel of honor), halve the Glory. (Deaths and Major Wounds still tend to happen, which doesn't make this risk free in the slightest. But the stakes are somewhat less than in a real situation, hence Glory is less.)
This one seems to work nicely for me and our group.

These seem pretty steep when compared with the amount of Glory for completing an adventure is about 100 per PK. It wouldn't take very long for a PK to reach the highest levels of Glory this way

These seem pretty steep when compared with the amount of Glory for completing an adventure is about 100 per PK. It wouldn't take very long for a PK to reach the highest levels of Glory this way

Compared to the old Battle Glory (KAP 5.1 and GPC rather than BoB2), it is peanuts! :)

It depends a bit. Having to beat 10 knights of Skill 20 to get one Glory Point is not that easy! Going against knights who have skill 20+ is rare, and very risky, as most of the PKs (at least in our campaigns) have skills less than 20. Especially during Uther's time, with the armor being as weak as it is (10, also, no Armor of Chivalry in our campaign), duels and melees can often result in major wounds or even death, so that tends to make the PKs more careful. There are also plenty of non-knight enemies to fight, too.

I have not found the Combat Glory to be a problem, to be honest. The old Battle Glory, yes. But I have already bitched about that in another thread. :)


EDIT:

Or did you mean the half Glory for a duel without ransom/death? I might agree with you there. However...

1 in 20 rolls is a critical hit. A critical hit often results in a major wound (at least during Uther's age).

So if you are fighting 20 guys (Skill 20 -> 50 halved Glory), even if it is just one hit exchange and you win the other 19 (not likely), you will take one critical hit on average per 1000 Glory. As is more likely that the combat will continue for a number of rounds, the true number of critical hits is likely closer to 2 - 4 per 1000 Glory. This is not really a good way to get ahead in life!

It gets actually even worse when fighting someone with Skill 15, since now you need 40 of them -> 4 - 8 critical hits. Even if only half of these is a major wound, you are still facing 2 - 4 major wounds for that one Glory point. And this still assumes that you win all of those fights. If you lose around half of them (assuming a comparable opponent), you'll have to double the numbers again.

With the full Glory, you lower the chance of a critical (per 1000 Glory) since it takes fewer fights, but at the same time, you risk getting captured or killed, or having a mission fail or what have you.

In conclusion of the above:
I might actually need to increase the Glory Rewards a bit. At ~50 Glory per normal knight (the rough average of KAP 5.1 Skill 15 knight, and the same I use for the similar skill level), it is almost guaranteed that no PK is really earning their Glory by fighting, but it is getting swamped by Battles, Missions and passive Glory awards.

I wonder if any of my players actually kept detailed enough track of their Glory rewards to distinguish how much of their characters' Glory came from defeating opponents, and how much came from something else... I do know that one PK took down five enemy knights (I think I gave him 500 glory for it) essentially single-handed (swirling melee, so they didn't manage to overwhelm him with numbers), and another one took down three French knights, who were bodyguards to a French Prince, and hence plenty skilled, too. But that is exactly why I remember those occasions, since they were pretty epic (especially the former).

YKAPWV of course


Compared to the old Battle Glory (KAP 5.1 and GPC rather than BoB2), it is peanuts! :)

Of course
That is intentional
For one thing, consider that a battle round is an hour long with some number of individual fights
Also, the larger number of battles in the Early Phase, and their increased Glory, is also intentional
It is to make the next generation of knights have less Glory
Thus, to spur them on to do deeds
and also make the Blood Tournaments look pretty good


no PK is really earning their Glory by fighting, but it is getting swamped by Battles, Missions and passive Glory awards.
Again, that is correct
and intentional
The Missions--quests and adventures--are supposed to be the source of most glory
not the petty melee


I do think that the passive Glory sometimes seems out of hand
I've whittled it back from its earlier amounts where lords got humongous points each year, for instance
But I am convinced that getting 100 points per year for being chivalrous or religious is to ohigh too

The Missions--quests and adventures--are supposed to be the source of most glory
not the petty melee

I'd just point out the case of Lancelot, who seems to be racking up loads of Glory by defeating knights and sending them back to Camelot as 'souvenirs' for Guenever. :)

But yeah, I see your point, too.

In the end, it comes down to balancing the Glory amounts to have the speed of Glory Accumulation you want to have. But I do think that the PK1 who duels the Robber Knight of Deadman's Fort to submission/death should get a lot more Glory than PK2 who has been helping with the quest, but only defeated the Robber Squire of Deadman's fort. :P

In the end, it comes down to balancing the Glory amounts to have the speed of Glory Accumulation you want to have. But I do think that the PK1 who duels the Robber Knight of Deadman's Fort to submission/death should get a lot more Glory than PK2 who has been helping with the quest, but only defeated the Robber Squire of Deadman's fort. :P
Yes, of course
In every campaign that I've ever run the Glory is divided among the players, not by me
and invariably the knight who did the most gets more Glory
or at least is offered more Glory
Sometimes the player turns it down, getting the character a Humble and sometimes a Generous Check as well
and everyone also gets Glory for the gamemaster characters they have killed or disabled