Morien
11-16-2016, 10:42 AM
I was going to post this into my Middle-Earth conversion thread, but then I figured it was something that might be interesting to talk about more generally.
FATE POINTS
In our Pendragon campaign, we have been using unspent Glory Bonus Points (GBP, in our campaign, you could save them rather than spend them right away) as Fate Points: the use of a GPB gave you a success and a failure to the opponent if it was an opposed roll, usually to countering opponent's critical or your own fumbles either at battlefield or in court. It has worked OKish in keeping the characters alive vs. bad-luck criticals, but at the same time, it is clear that it has 'stunted' the characters a bit, as the GBPs are hoarded to forestall a character death or even taking a major wound. This has resulted in characters with 10 000+ Glory with their best skill about 20, with skills above 20 very rare. It doesn't really let them become legends that their Glory would imply that they are.
Thus, an alternative I have been thinking about is that I would give Fate Points, separate from GBP, which would allow a reroll (not an auto success like with GBPs before) on any dice roll directly acting on the character. So enemy hitting/defending against him for instance, and of course his own rolls. I'd also allow it to be used when a healer is patching him up. But not when the leader is making battle plans and fumbles. Sure, that will lead into increased danger, but it is not, right there and then, acting on the character.
So how do you gain the Fate Points? Well, at first I was thinking to tie them to Glory, but then I reconsidered. After all, not all character types are as 'Glory hungry', and Glory already gives a big big benefit. So now I am thinking more like +1 Fate Point per completed Major Adventure. That should keep them rare enough, but still common enough that the players can gain some more of them to use, and likely from adventures where they have already used the previous one, too.
Major Adventures would be the ones which are part of the big story of the campaign and have major impact. As an example, in GPC, I'd say that some of the Major Adventures (off the top of my head) would be:
1. Capture of King Octa
2. Killing of Duke Gorlois
3. Infamous Feast and dealing with its aftermath at the start of Anarchy (I had Salisbury facing a coup attempt by the seneschal followed by an invasion by Syagrius & his mercenaries, so yeah, the PKs definitely would have earned a Fate Point for preserving Salisbury through all that.)
4. The Death of King Nanteleod (if the PKs are participating in it on the enemy side, at least)
5. Arthur drawing the Sword from the Stone. (Not something the PKs have direct hand in, but giving them a fate point for this would nicely underscore the renewal of hope and optimism.)
6. Battle of Terrabil (maybe)
7. Adventure of the Grey Knight
8. Battle of Badon Hill
9. The Cambrian War: Builth mini-campaign
10. Battle of Autun (maybe)
11. Saving Arthur from Camille (if they do)
12. The Heart Blade mini-campaign
13. Adventure of the Spectre King
14. Destroying King Mark's Infernal Engine
15. Grail Quest (if you get to see the Grail during it, at least)
16. Fighting for/against Lancelot when he rescues Guinever from the pyre.
For my Middle-Earth campaign, it is slightly easier for me, since I can design the major adventures so that the PCs do play a major part in solving the adventure and hence are deserving of those Fate Points (and Glory, of course).
Anyway, any thoughts from the esteemed members of the Forum? Good/bad idea, good/poor execution?
Some other alternatives for FP gain I considered but felt the above one was a better idea:
1) One FP (reroll) per session, but they cannot be hoarded (use it or lose it). This would give the PCs some immunity vs. 'bad luck', but would keep major opponents still dangerous, since those rarely need criticals in order to harm the PCs. Also a string of bad luck could still take a character out. Advantage of this is that it would reduce bookkeeping, and reduce the 'random orc puts an arrow into your eye, you are dead' -occurrences, even though those do happen in the Lore. The big downside of this is that it is possibly way too common: it would pretty much cancel out Major Wounds, since it is quite rare, at least in our games, that there are more than one Major Wound possibility per knight in a battle. If the Fate Point is use it or lose it, and you know you will get a new one at the start of the next session, best to use it and avoid that Major Wound. However, if the FPs are rarer, like in the main suggestion, then you might weigh the pros and cons and decide to take the major wound so that you can avoid a mortal wound in some later adventure.
2) Karma: The Player can take a Bad Karma counter in order to get a reroll, but those Bad Karma counters need to be cashed back by the GM in the form of a GM called reroll before more can be gained. I am not too fond of this, since it feels adversial and would require me to keep notes on how many bad karma counters each Player has. But I figure I'll toss the idea out here to sink or swim. Maybe someone has used something similar and that it has worked fine.
I'd also be very interested to hear if you have used something similar in your campaigns (not just KAP) and how it has worked out?
FATE POINTS
In our Pendragon campaign, we have been using unspent Glory Bonus Points (GBP, in our campaign, you could save them rather than spend them right away) as Fate Points: the use of a GPB gave you a success and a failure to the opponent if it was an opposed roll, usually to countering opponent's critical or your own fumbles either at battlefield or in court. It has worked OKish in keeping the characters alive vs. bad-luck criticals, but at the same time, it is clear that it has 'stunted' the characters a bit, as the GBPs are hoarded to forestall a character death or even taking a major wound. This has resulted in characters with 10 000+ Glory with their best skill about 20, with skills above 20 very rare. It doesn't really let them become legends that their Glory would imply that they are.
Thus, an alternative I have been thinking about is that I would give Fate Points, separate from GBP, which would allow a reroll (not an auto success like with GBPs before) on any dice roll directly acting on the character. So enemy hitting/defending against him for instance, and of course his own rolls. I'd also allow it to be used when a healer is patching him up. But not when the leader is making battle plans and fumbles. Sure, that will lead into increased danger, but it is not, right there and then, acting on the character.
So how do you gain the Fate Points? Well, at first I was thinking to tie them to Glory, but then I reconsidered. After all, not all character types are as 'Glory hungry', and Glory already gives a big big benefit. So now I am thinking more like +1 Fate Point per completed Major Adventure. That should keep them rare enough, but still common enough that the players can gain some more of them to use, and likely from adventures where they have already used the previous one, too.
Major Adventures would be the ones which are part of the big story of the campaign and have major impact. As an example, in GPC, I'd say that some of the Major Adventures (off the top of my head) would be:
1. Capture of King Octa
2. Killing of Duke Gorlois
3. Infamous Feast and dealing with its aftermath at the start of Anarchy (I had Salisbury facing a coup attempt by the seneschal followed by an invasion by Syagrius & his mercenaries, so yeah, the PKs definitely would have earned a Fate Point for preserving Salisbury through all that.)
4. The Death of King Nanteleod (if the PKs are participating in it on the enemy side, at least)
5. Arthur drawing the Sword from the Stone. (Not something the PKs have direct hand in, but giving them a fate point for this would nicely underscore the renewal of hope and optimism.)
6. Battle of Terrabil (maybe)
7. Adventure of the Grey Knight
8. Battle of Badon Hill
9. The Cambrian War: Builth mini-campaign
10. Battle of Autun (maybe)
11. Saving Arthur from Camille (if they do)
12. The Heart Blade mini-campaign
13. Adventure of the Spectre King
14. Destroying King Mark's Infernal Engine
15. Grail Quest (if you get to see the Grail during it, at least)
16. Fighting for/against Lancelot when he rescues Guinever from the pyre.
For my Middle-Earth campaign, it is slightly easier for me, since I can design the major adventures so that the PCs do play a major part in solving the adventure and hence are deserving of those Fate Points (and Glory, of course).
Anyway, any thoughts from the esteemed members of the Forum? Good/bad idea, good/poor execution?
Some other alternatives for FP gain I considered but felt the above one was a better idea:
1) One FP (reroll) per session, but they cannot be hoarded (use it or lose it). This would give the PCs some immunity vs. 'bad luck', but would keep major opponents still dangerous, since those rarely need criticals in order to harm the PCs. Also a string of bad luck could still take a character out. Advantage of this is that it would reduce bookkeeping, and reduce the 'random orc puts an arrow into your eye, you are dead' -occurrences, even though those do happen in the Lore. The big downside of this is that it is possibly way too common: it would pretty much cancel out Major Wounds, since it is quite rare, at least in our games, that there are more than one Major Wound possibility per knight in a battle. If the Fate Point is use it or lose it, and you know you will get a new one at the start of the next session, best to use it and avoid that Major Wound. However, if the FPs are rarer, like in the main suggestion, then you might weigh the pros and cons and decide to take the major wound so that you can avoid a mortal wound in some later adventure.
2) Karma: The Player can take a Bad Karma counter in order to get a reroll, but those Bad Karma counters need to be cashed back by the GM in the form of a GM called reroll before more can be gained. I am not too fond of this, since it feels adversial and would require me to keep notes on how many bad karma counters each Player has. But I figure I'll toss the idea out here to sink or swim. Maybe someone has used something similar and that it has worked fine.
I'd also be very interested to hear if you have used something similar in your campaigns (not just KAP) and how it has worked out?