In Pendragon, we have Directed Traits (like Suspicious of Silchester Knights +5 for example)

Has anybody ever tried Directed Passions?

We have a knight in our campaign who was looking after young Sir Pellinore, but Pellinore fell to a hag when the knight fumbled his Valorous roll any refused to engage the hag. Now he feels like he has lost all honor. He is trying to figure out if there is something mechanical we can do to portray this situation

Well we have used modifiers to Love (family) to reflect more distant relations. And I think one player requested a modifier to apply one particular family member who was giving him grief by being stupid and involving himself in sticky situations.

In the event you describe, I'd just have Honor -1 and a cowardly check. Maybe a bigger minus to honor if pellinore was the liege or PK was assigned to that duty by a liege. But I don't see a need for a directed passion.

Directed Traits can apply to Passions by RAW. Or at least there are plenty of examples of such.

This specific case sounds like it deserves a Fear Passion.

Thanks to all who have replied. We probably will not go the directed passions route

Directed Traits can apply to Passions by RAW. Or at least there are plenty of examples of such.

scarik, could you give me a reference to some of those examples? I couldn't find any in KAP 5.2.

Ah, GPC, Syagrius has Hate Britons with a bonus +10 to Hate (Madoc) specifically. Gawaine has Dislike of De Gales clan, which should, IMHO, be a Hate passion instead. Older Robert has also Dislike of Levcomagus (ditto). (Indeed, in KAP 5.2, The Average Knight's Hate (Saxons) is referred to in the main text as 'dislike of Saxons'.)

Apart from Syagrius' Hate (Madoc) modifying his Hate (Britons), I can't find other examples in KAP 5.2 and GPC.

EDIT: Nothing I could find in BoU, but BotW has in Ousting an Order: "In every case the members of the ousted order gain a Directed Trait of Hate or Suspicious for the lord who kicked them out." This should be errataed, since Hate is clearly a Passion, and should be treated as such.

I was thinking of Sygrius in particular. You could of course give him a separate Hate Madoc which if you use 5.1+ there is no trouble with extra Glory gain from the added passion.

I was thinking of Sygrius in particular. You could of course give him a separate Hate Madoc which if you use 5.1+ there is no trouble with extra Glory gain from the added passion.

Yeah, I don't like Directed Passions, since they easily stack to overpowered passions (Hate Madoc 26 in this case). I can just imagine a player wanting Hate Levcomagus and then stacks up +2d6 Hate (Sir Blains) on top of that. Nope. Not in my campaign.

The whole issue of whether passions and traits give Glory is another can of worms... There are actually so many comments in KAP 5.1+ that say that they still do, for example KAP 5.2 under Passive Glory:
"Famous Traits and Passions: During the Winter Phase,
player-knights receive Glory equal to the value of any Traits or
Passions with values of 16+."

Can't get any clearer than that. I have a house rule that only the highest in a specific category applies: So if you have multiple Hate, Love or Loyalty passions, only the highest brings Glory. Which deals with the 'problem' of players piling on different Hates or Loyalties.

5.1 removed Passive Glory for Passions and Traits.

5.2 Put it back.

Its out again in Paladin.

And 5.1 still says this under Love


Love is an emotional bonding or attraction felt by one
individual for another individual, group, or deity. A character
may have many loves, but it is best if only one counts for
Glory points each year (normally the highest).

5.1 removed Passive Glory for Passions and Traits.
5.2 Put it back.
Its out again in Paladin.
Actually, in Paladin you do gain passive Glory for all high scores (16+ Stats, Traits, Passions, Attitudes and Skills) whenever they are raised. So a score that goes up from 16 to 17 you get 17 Glory, once (not annually).

At least that's how I wrote the rule, but I noticed they chucked it out in the final version. :confused:

@Ruben: You are right, I personally added back that rule (and the Glory Award Table) to the manuscript in Chapter 4 (pgs. 89-90), but it has been eliminated again somehow (I noticed that many of my corrections have been eliminated/ignored). A vestige of the rule is still present in Chapter 10 (p. 181): "Glory for Passion or Traits over 16 should be calculated. See the Passive Glory section in Chapter 4 for more information.".

@everyone: I tend to consider "Traits" as general personality characteristics that a knight tends to display toward everyone else. Hence, it's appropriate to have "Directed Traits" that the knight only expresses toward a few individuals or a group.
Conversely, "Passions" are very strong feeling that are ALREADY restricted to one or a few individuals or circumstances (indicated in parentheses). As such, it is usually more practical (and makes more sense) to simply add a new Passion, which is directed just toward the new group or individual, instead of adding a "Directed Passion". In other words, all Passions are already "Directed".

I consider this area a YPMV area. Some gamemasters (and players) want the campaign to be high glory knights, where the PKs can rub elbows with Galahad, Lancelot, King Arthur, are a Round Table knight and so on, which requires high glory. Others may be more modest and so want to limit the scope of their campaign and thereby want lower glory totals.

Instead of having many hates, simply have one called Xenophobe. Can only use the one Passion in each category (Hate, Love, etc.) so count only the highest, etc.

Don't limit the passions at all, encourage the players to have them all at 16+, and now the players are puppets, slaves to those high passions.

Both methods are viable. I have played in both types and I have enjoyed them. So, my view is give the group the choice and let the decide. Happier players usually mean a happier campaign and one that lasts longer.

Just my two denarii.

Actually, in Paladin you do gain passive Glory for all high scores (16+ Stats, Traits, Passions, Attitudes and Skills) whenever they are raised. So a score that goes up from 16 to 17 you get 17 Glory, once (not annually).

What happens if the trait/whatever lowers to 16 and you raise it to 17 again? Do you again get the 17 Glory? Since I can see this being a pain to keep track of, if you need to worry about if it was already raised to 17 a decade before.



@everyone: I tend to consider "Traits" as general personality characteristics that a knight tends to display toward everyone else. Hence, it's appropriate to have "Directed Traits" that the knight only expresses toward a few individuals or a group.
Conversely, "Passions" are very strong feeling that are ALREADY restricted to one or a few individuals or circumstances (indicated in parentheses). As such, it is usually more practical (and makes more sense) to simply add a new Passion, which is directed just toward the new group or individual, instead of adding a "Directed Passion". In other words, all Passions are already "Directed".

Well said. I agree fully.


I consider this area a YPMV area. Some gamemasters (and players) want the campaign to be high glory knights, where the PKs can rub elbows with Galahad, Lancelot, King Arthur, are a Round Table knight and so on, which requires high glory. Others may be more modest and so want to limit the scope of their campaign and thereby want lower glory totals.


It is not so much the Glory total that gets my goat, but the fact that the PKs can, in principle, rack up loads of Glory risk-free, just by sitting safely at home, doing nothing but skipping time. This is why I rail against Passive Glory: it cheapens the Glory that the PKs actually win by doing heroic deeds.



Don't limit the passions at all, encourage the players to have them all at 16+, and now the players are puppets, slaves to those high passions.


Sure. Hate (Saxons) can (and has) bitten the PKs in the bum when the smart choice is to negotiate with the Saxons. But lets say after 510*, there is very few reasons for the PKs to negotiate with Saxons, and even before that, a smart liege would never send Hate (Saxons) 18 PKs as diplomats to Wessex Court. Heck, a smart liege would ensure that they are somewhere else when the Saxons come calling for tribute, too!

* Sure, if the PKs are rewarded with Saxon-infested lands after Badon, high Hate (Saxons) gets somewhat interesting again, warring against their Just and Merciful.

Many other Hate -passions can have negligible downsides. Hate (Picts), Hate (Irish), Hate (Franks) and Hate (Continental Romans) all have very few downsides in a game centered on Salisbury/Logres. If you are headed off to Caledonia, chances are that you are going to fight Picts anyway. And so forth.

Same is true for many Loyalty -passions. It is very very rare (never happens in GPC) that Loyalty (Robert) is in conflict with Loyalty (Arthur). And it is quite rare that these are in conflict with Loyalty (Group), since everyone likely shares all three loyalties anyway, and the adventures are often doing the bidding of your liege/king, which you would do anyway, even if your Loyalty would be less than 16. So it is, in practice, free 50+ Glory per year, and they actually help you in achieving your goals thanks to Inspired.



Happier players usually mean a happier campaign and one that lasts longer.

This one I would definitely agree with, too. Although the GM needs to be happy, too. :P